this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2024
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[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 120 points 9 months ago (4 children)

saw someone say maybe another trump win is good because it will mobilize the left a little more

threw up in my mouth a bit through the tears

[–] systemglitch@lemmy.world 55 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It's a round about way of saying they want a civil war.

[–] Jaderick@lemmy.world 29 points 9 months ago (10 children)

A lot of those types of leftists fantasize about a glorious revolution, but many revolutions have happened and no utopias exist so…

I think Contrapoints made the same argument in one of her videos.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (83 children)

Agreed. I would add to that -- there's actually an incredibly instructive example to draw by looking at the non-violent-revolutionary movements that did achieve big social change in the past. The US labor movement in the late 1800s, Gandhi's independence movement, the US civil rights movement with its partial victory, things like that. There are a ton of examples of people who achieved big things to revise the systems that rule their daily lives, starting from a way less advantaged position than the left in the modern day US. It's not easy, no, but compared to an Indian person under the British Raj it's an absolute cakewalk.

Strangely enough, the people who are so incredibly upset with the broken system in the US as it pertains to this election (which, yeah, I get that), are somehow totally uninterested in looking at what actions big or small might produce positive change. They're solely focused on criticizing Biden and only Biden, or on saying that it's so broken that we might as well let Trump come to power because what's the difference.

It's like "The plane is having engine trouble and I don't know if we're going to make it. I'm real scared and upset about the situation we're in. I know! Let's shoot the pilot in the head."

[–] Twinklebreeze@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Wasn't the us labor movement violent? I seem to remember something about troops firing on striking miners.

[–] Jaderick@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago

Mine owners utilized violence and essentially wage slavery to keep miners from unionizing and asking for more fair working conditions. Pinkertons got their reputation as being violent corporate mercenaries in this period, and they continue to be. The violence caused miners to fight back, and when they did the US army got involved usually in the interest of the mine owners. The lead up to the Battle of Blair Mountain is one of the best examples of this and maybe the most impactful.

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[–] Wrench@lemmy.world 20 points 8 months ago (5 children)

All those armchair warriors that have a couple guns and say they're ready for the revolution, but aren't even participating in any activism besides edgelording on forums.

Sure you are, champ. Sure you are. Why don't you instacart yourself some hot pockets and a gallon of ice cream.

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[–] chuckleslord@lemmy.world 46 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago (4 children)

It blows my mind that we're still discussing this after the German left took this approach with Hitler.

There is no "after fascists". Fascists are the enemy that we unite against. Hitler wouldn't have come into power if the leftists and moderates cooperated and had a healthy relationship. Even if some factions of the left/moderates want to play off fascists for power, there's still plenty of people in the relevant group who dislike the fascists. Unite with them to take down the fascists and elements of their party who empower them.

We'll get nowhere if we assume the entire group of leftists/moderates are fascist supporters. We need to ally.

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[–] Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social 28 points 8 months ago (14 children)

The trolls ive spoken to here are afraid of leftist solidarity. They claim they want change, but whine and cry the second you call for all roads for change to be taken. Mutual aid, direct action, and voting are praxis. We will have an impossible time trying to get any of those first 2 done under dumbass.

As someone on the far end of the left spectrum, any and all leftward movement must be embraced at all opportunities. How am i to convince anyone to work together with me, if I shit on their methods? All must be embraced. Some will be more effective, some less, but thats how we make connections.

Its about time this country learned what solidarity is.

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[–] ptz@dubvee.org 73 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (42 children)

Majority of People: I want a pony.

Candidate 1: I'm going to kill all the ponies.

Candidate 2: I won't do that, and will try to make ponies more affordable (because price-fixing the cost of ponies is not within my constitutional powers)

Leftist: "But that's not good enough! I want a free pony. And a blowjob. I'm voting 3rd party 😤"

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 74 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (32 children)

Do keep in mind these aggressive purist Gatekeeping / no true Scot leftists are very often just right-wing astroturfers. It hits two birds with one stone: they make leftism obnoxious, they often muddy the waters of violence, and wedge-drive the Democratic coalition to get Trump elected.

Either that or they're very young and naive.

Don't fall for it. You'll see more of this the closer the election gets.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 16 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Oh, I'm not fooled (for the most part, anyway). I'm just giving the benefit of doubt and calling them out using their own arguments and trying to not make any assumptions or accusations.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

The problem is they don't often argue in good faith. Usually deflection and gish-gallop are their MO. So be concise and be mindful of the bystander audience.

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[–] li10@feddit.uk 26 points 9 months ago

3rd party: “I can make big promises willy nilly because there is zero chance I’ll win and therefore won’t be held accountable”

[–] Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social 14 points 9 months ago

The leftist in this comment also makes sure to plug their ears nice and good if u tell them that the first candidate is financed by foreign powers literally hostile to anything u hold dear, a situation beyond unprecedented.

Voting is the least u can do politically, but it is still praxis, and absolutely necessary given the circumstances.

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[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 54 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Already had a tankie tell me they're voting 3rd party.

Putin thanks them while Ukrainians and Palestinians weep.

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 30 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Don't worry, tankies love Russia's Legitimate Security Interests in performing genocide in Ukraine.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago (20 children)

One literally hopped on a sock-puppet account immediately after I reported their other account for spam (several replies to each comment) and blocking his account and just continued with the same nonsense.

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[–] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 49 points 9 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (12 children)

This is going to happen every election for the foreseeable future. Trump is not a illness he's a symptom. Eventually a right winger is going to win because we're stuck voting for a party that often ignores their constituents for business interests. That's how we got Trump in the first place and the DNC learned nothing.

All the while we could vote third party like in most healthy democracies but we can't because neither of the major parties want a third party and voters are to cowardly to vote 3rd party because "they won't win anyway" even when they actually represent what they want in a on policy. See Nader and Bernie

Fact is neither Democrat or Republican is going to attempt to change s system that actively benefits them, especially in the higher positions of authority. The fact that voting 3rd party is considered throwing away your vote should be more embarrassing to Americans as a whole.

[–] alilbee@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's not "considered" throwing your vote away. Under a FPTP voting system, it is throwing your vote away. Nobody who tells you that says it gleefully like we just love that we and you can't vote third party effectively. It's just the mathematical reality of our voting system and it has to be changed before voting third party becomes an option that is anything but symbolic and self-defeating.

The DNC is not the ephemereal vague boogeyman the left tries to make it out to be. It's an organization focused on winning elections and accomplishing policies for the Democratic constituency. You are making the mistake of hating the player instead of the game.

If third party votes are important to you, join a local political group focused on expanding another voting choice method like Ranked Choice or STAR voting. You're already on the easier half of the ideological spectrum to wage this fight from, since most sponsors of alternatives are from democratic groups.

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[–] Lanky_Pomegranate530@midwest.social 29 points 8 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)

It's not that they are ok with Trump. They are just unhappy with both candidates. With that being said I do plan on voting for the Biden because while I don't agree with him on everything I know that he won't turn the country into a fascist dictatorship like Trump. The fact that this asshole is still legally allowed to run is insane.

Edit: I change my mind. After seeing Bidens debate performance it is pretty obvious that he is going to lose. Unless if the Democrats replace Biden with a candidate who can actually speak. I will be voting for Jill Stein instead.

Edit 2: Turns out Biden dropped out. I will now vote for whoever the democratic nominee is but after this election I will be voting 3rd party from now on.

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[–] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 27 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Please, for the love of god, be good enough to vote for.

[–] AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world 31 points 8 months ago

Sorry best we can do is give you someone bad enough to vote against.

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[–] mojo_raisin@lemmy.world 24 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Leftists who won't vote are saying:

"Making a political statement is worth not only having Trump for president for the next four years, but living under a Trump for the rest of my life or fighting another world war to escape it."

"I'm so mad at the current president for doing genocide that I'm going to stand down and tacitly support his other opponent to do genocide instead."

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[–] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 23 points 9 months ago

Please vote. I don't live in the US but this election is likely to impact the safety of my family.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago (80 children)

Whether you blame Biden and the DNC, or the “left” voters for not voting hard enough; if Trump wins, it won’t matter. Get over yourself and try to build allies instead of destroying support.

Majority in U.S. Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza

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[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 13 points 9 months ago (11 children)

I'm childish enough that I'm irritated at my comment here being removed. Here's the comment, which also applies to this meme:

You know that weak support for Hindenburg's party was what let Hitler come to power, right?

Not that I agree that Biden is a lesser evil, but even within those parameters, there's an absolutely glaring flaw in bringing up Nazi Germany while making the case that voting for the lesser evil is a bad idea

And when he asked for clarification:

My point is that the holocaust that gave rise to Niemöller's quote in the first place happened because of weakened resistance from the SPD (the establishment left), which wasn't getting support from the far-left of its day because it wasn't left enough. When as a result the fascist party gained control, it put all the far-left people in camps, outlawed the SPD, and began killing people by the millions. Which in retrospect made the complaint that the establishment left wasn't left enough to support, even against literal Hitler, seem short sighted.

Mod banned me. 🙂

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