this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023
1363 points (98.7% liked)

Gaming

2346 readers
200 users here now

The Lemmy.zip Gaming Community

For news, discussions and memes!


Community Rules

This community follows the Lemmy.zip Instance rules, with the inclusion of the following rule:

You can see Lemmy.zip's rules by going to our Code of Conduct.

What to Expect in Our Code of Conduct:


If you enjoy reading legal stuff, you can check it all out at legal.lemmy.zip.


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] CaptDust@sh.itjust.works 222 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)

misogyny is a skill issue

Always has been, weak men can't stand women outpacing them, this is not limited to gaming but basically anything and everything.

[–] not_that_guy05@lemmy.world 124 points 10 months ago (9 children)

Had co-workers say they would never marry someone making more than them. Shit is so weird.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 56 points 10 months ago (1 children)

jfc, being a home-husband is the dream, their fucking loss

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Been there, done that, it sucked.

It was great at first! But after 6-months I was depressed. Guess I'm the sort that requires the structure a regular job provides. Kinda been the same for WFH. :(

[–] kadu@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I had depression before WFH, still have it but at least now I can work with my cat on my lap

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (4 children)

I like WFH but I hated being a house-husband. WFH gives me something to do more than cleaning and cooking and childcare.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Zink@programming.dev 43 points 10 months ago

It shows how stupid and against your own best interests this kind of thinking can be.

I am the full time worker in my family, and happy to be the provider for them. However, I would be a stay at home dad / house-husband so damn fast if my wife got some random job mom making a lot more than me. I do have my priorities in order, after all.

[–] GigglyBobble@kbin.social 21 points 10 months ago

I'd do housework and care for the kids in a heartbeat if my wife made enough.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It would be interesting to see if it's really because of how they are as individuals or more about the response to social status thing. Like if they did an experiment where high performers were deceived into thinking they were actually performing poorly, and vice-versa, would the attitudes towards women be reversed or not? The conclusions in OP seem to imply the researchers think they would be.

[–] Frozengyro@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago (2 children)

My hypothesis is men with low self esteem would be more misogynistic vs men with high self esteem.

[–] Fapp@lemmynsfw.com 4 points 10 months ago

My hypothesis is that if you're a piece of shit, that will extend to all walks of life(misogny, sucking at video games) whereas if you are not, the same rules apply(equality, excelling at video games)

By being a piece of human garbage you effectively hamstring yourself in every field.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] stevehobbes@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

The issue with this is it’s too simplistic.

What it’s actually saying is “it’s easy to not be misogynistic as long as you’re significantly better than all the women”.

It does not imply that you won’t be misogynistic as soon as you are threatened.

Ie when status quo is maintained (patriarchy is intact for you) it’s easy to support women.

[–] bouh@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

The reverse is not true unfortunately. Skilled men are often mysoginistic assholes too.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] someguy3@lemmy.ca 183 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Men of quality do not fear equality.

[–] spaxxor@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago

This is in my top ten favorite quotes.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 97 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Ain't just gaming. I dropped a note on a home tech forum while being visibly female and very rapidly realised i'd forgotten how fucking neckbeardy rank amateurs are

I've been a network/systems engineer for 25 years, my fellow pros would never be so gauche.

Except dev.

[–] rediot@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Rather ironically, I'm actually married to a dev

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 15 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

instructions unclear, husband now caught in ceiling fan ranting about SEO

[–] hoshikarakitaridia@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

And that's why they made us learn Murphy's law early on :P

[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 4 points 10 months ago

I prefer O'Toole's Commentary. Murphy was a fuckin' optimist

[–] gkd@lemmy.ml 25 points 10 months ago

It’s weird with devs. Most of us are fine but there’s definitely a sizable number of “tech bros” that absolutely are misogynistic. And it’s probably worse than I realize not being the target of it.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] jcdenton@lemy.lol 72 points 10 months ago (1 children)

All I heard was men submissive to men

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 22 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Low elo men confirmed biddable and breedable

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 59 points 10 months ago

Nobody fears competition more than the mediocre who only get by on the weight of their privilege.

[–] zepheriths@lemmy.world 47 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)
[–] Synthuir@lemmy.ml 30 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] dil@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

There's further discussion in the second link where the original authors stand by their claim.

The two use different statistical methods to try to demonstrate the conclusion, and that's where the difference lies.

I'm not a big stats person, but I'm coming away feeling like the original claim is valid since a) it was shown in two different models the original author used and b) it makes intuitive sense to me.

[–] AnarchistArtificer 4 points 10 months ago

Talk about being the change you want to see in the world. Thanks for the link, I appreciate it

[–] pixxelkick@lemmy.world 41 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

What I would be really interested in, is how does it play out in reversed scenarios.

How do inexperienced women react to a singular man commenting in a competitive area that is female dominated, do you see the sane sorr of vitriol from lower performing women, vs welcoming behavior from better performing women?

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] AceQuorthon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Loser gamers are mad screaming chimpanzees confirmed

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] JayDee@lemmy.ml 31 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Hasn't evolutionary psychology been heavily debunked at this point?

I think it's much easier to say that dudes have it hammered into their heads that girls are bad at games, so when they underperform and a girl is on their team, they feel emasculated. This isn't too far off from when dudes end up losing their 'bread winner' status in their relationship. They were told they had explicit traits to exhibit and they failed to do so, so it hits them in their self esteem. Classic fragile masculinity.

Patriarchal conditioning makes way more sense than "caveman brain HATE competing with woman!".

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

Hasn't evolutionary psychology been heavily debunked at this point?

It's not without a good heap of criticism, that's for damn sure.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_evolutionary_psychology

I tend to think the social angle is more credible Because the behavior of being a dick to female-sounding voices in games is not a universal behavior. Those who aren't misogynists don't act that way. How strange.

[–] SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca 16 points 10 months ago (24 children)

The entire field of evolutionary psychology debunked? Do you mean the idea that our brains are subject to evolutionary forces like every other part of our anatomy? No, not debunked.

This is conflating specific methodological problems with theoretical claims. Yes, many have criticized the game theoretical methodology typical of evolutionary psychology. There are a lot of highly speculative junk claims out there. It’s also true that some (not all or even most!) cognitive scientists think that we cannot take the perspective that psychology evolved at all. But it is certainly untrue that there is some consensus that evolutionary psychology has been “debunked”.

This criticism is also a bit ironic given the highly speculative nature of the claims you put forward. Your guess sounds plausible I suppose, but I see no reason to think it’s any more methodologically rigorous.

load more comments (24 replies)
[–] Chetzemoka@startrek.website 14 points 10 months ago

Yeah, the problem is it slips too easily into essentialism. "Oh we evolved this way, nothing we can do about it I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

Especially for questions like this, which could pretty easily be explained by cultural influences, no need to bring evolution into it.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Hasn’t evolutionary psychology been heavily debunked at this point?

No. On the most basic level it shouldn't really be terribly contentious that evolution has an impact on psychology, on a more detailed level, well, they have their hits and misses just as every other field.

Patriarchal conditioning makes way more sense than

...case in point "everything is socially constructed" is just as bonkers a position as "everything is biologically predetermined". Why do people have to universalise their specialised area of investigation and “caveman brain HATE competing with woman!” is a rather cartoonish take on evolutionary psychology. If anything it'd be "young male annoyed he can't hunt for shit while female age-peer can because he wouldn't be able to provide for her while heavily pregnant". Note that not being annoyed in that case doesn't require better hunting skills, only sufficient ones, and "annoyed" can lead to "will work harder on his skills" or "is going to lash out" or "becomes depressive and walks into the desert" or "is going to look around, see all those capable hunters, and focus on hut building instead". There's a fuckton of behavioural flexibility left there.

Bad social conditioning then comes into that and shapes tendencies into caricatures of themselves, or good social conditioning comes in and, well, does good things. It's not an either/or thing, pretty much everything is both nature and nurture.

[–] Hundun@beehaw.org 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I was about to point this out - evopsych is an essentialist pseudoscience. Human interactions are governed by culture at least as much as they are by biology.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] whome@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well in my observation the weaker players are quite often the more toxic ones. The "what a safe" spammers in rocket league are often the ones getting carried.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] morphballganon@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

Scrub == scrub

Got it

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 8 points 10 months ago
[–] sirico@feddit.uk 7 points 10 months ago

That's a rock fact

[–] calypsopub@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I disagree with the conclusion. My experience is anecdotal, of course, but I'll share. I'm a gamer female with a husband and grown son. Husband is gone now, but the three of us gamed quite extensively together and separately for years, playing various MMORPGs and MOBAs, among other things. My son is exceptionally good at gaming, I am mediocre and consider myself a proud "filthy casual," and my husband was absolute dogshit - to the point I had to leave my chair and go help him by taking over the controls to get him past certain difficult hurdles (and my son does the same for me on occasion).

My husband's ego was never threatened by this. He never took his frustration out on me. Why? Because he was a decent person who was confident in his masculinity.

In the end, lack of skill does not cause misogyny. I believe misogyny springs from the same source as the lack of skill: a tiny brain.

[–] adeoxymus@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

Not saying I agree or disagree with the author. However you being his wife did not result in "female-initiated disruption of a male hierarchy" (their words) so it's not really an argument against their hypothesis.

(Of course your husband being nice and not a dickhead probably also plays a role)

[–] uis@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

TLDR: correlation != causattion

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›