this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil. How can they win back the country? Is it too late?

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[–] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 151 points 1 week ago (20 children)

Democracy is just the tyranny of the majority.

I think that most of the Americans want this, even if people on the outside do not understand. So in that sense they are right now winning back their country, as confusing as it might sound.

[–] Deadlytosty@feddit.nl 101 points 1 week ago (12 children)

Normally in Democracy the majority or popular vote wins, however due to the electoral college America has, it doesnt necessarily mean the majority voted for the winner. This was the case for Bush, and some other moments in the past.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 182 points 1 week ago (12 children)

FYI: it looks like Trump is going to win the popular vote on this one as well.

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 166 points 1 week ago (14 children)

How in the fuck.

Like what drives a majority of Americans to vote for a demented toddler. It's insane.

As a kid I always wondered how on Earth did Hitler ever make anyone follow himself, how did those people not realise. Turns out a majority of people are just fucking morons.

[–] douglasg14b@lemmy.world 78 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Yep and the slow gutting of the education system isn't making it any better.

You have an entire generation coming of voting age who are rabid Trump supporters. They don't care about policies or democracy or public institutions. They don't care about healthcare, social securities, or the stability of the economy.

They don't care about any of the things that have been built up through generations. They lack critical thinking ability.

The recipe works. If you make dumb kids they will vote for dumb people. It works so well that part of the future plan for a trump presidency is to get rid of the department of education. Solidifying the Republican party indefinitely.

Without critical thinking and with mass media it's so easy to say every problem that people deal with is because the "other side" made it so. Even if the other side has been doing everything possible to achieve the opposite.

[–] HungryJerboa@lemmy.ca 36 points 1 week ago

Americans aren't special. They're just as vulnerable to fascism as anybody else.

The MAGATs might as well be wearing brownshirts and saluting like Mussolini.

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[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 66 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Whether it's 48 or 52 % is an immaterial difference. Every other American who voted, voted for Trump. The rest don't seem to care either way. He has very broad popular assent and is as popular as Harris give or take a margin of error.

Everyone is lasered-focused on the EC because it makes all the difference for the practicalities, but if one is to make a broad judgement of whether Trump won fair and square the answer is "yeah, mostly". Further proof is the fact that the House is probably going to be his as well.

Americans now bear the collective responsibility for the horrors of the next 4(+?) years. Do not make the mistake of blaming the popular will of outright fascism on institutional failures, because institutions didn't force half of Americans to vote for the fascist, again.

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[–] Fosheze@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Trump is winning the popular vote by a pretty decent margin. The electoral college isn't the issue here.

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[–] paddirn@lemmy.world 121 points 1 week ago (8 children)

As an American, I expected most Americans to be at least semi-rational and to recognize what a threat to democracy and our way of life that Trump is. I expected most Republicans to just vote for him out of reflex, but otherwise the rest of America would rise up in our hour of need to vote against this and save us all from this idiocy.

Nope. There was just more people lined up to vote for more idiocy. We failed the world. I’d say I’m sorry, but I don’t think that’ll help. This is America.

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[–] Strider@lemmy.world 80 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It is too late for a while now. Try to be safe, even if that means moving.

[–] TehBamski@lemmy.world 62 points 1 week ago (3 children)
[–] alleycat@lemmy.world 45 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Pretty dystopic that you post this quote, because it is doctored to include catholics. Niemöller's wife explicitly stated that he never included them in his poem. Source: https://martin-niemoeller-stiftung.de/martin-niemoeller/was-sagte-niemoeller-wirklich

Martin Niemöllers zweite Frau (seit 1971), Sibylle von Sell  schreibt dazu am 23.4.2000 in h-holocaust https://www.h-net.org/~holoweb/ :.“ The trouble with Martin Niemoeller’s „famous quotation“ is that he never wrote it down – which enabled  so many hitchhikers  over the years to „put themselves on the waggon“. In his  „Confession of Guilt“  (as he called it himself: Schuldbekenntnis in German) the Communists came first, then the Trade Unionists and then the Socialists and then the Jews. NO ONE ELSE.”

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[–] Myro@lemm.ee 77 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think this is going to be the end of the USA as we know it. After this period, democracy will be significantly impacted.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 80 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The western world as a whole should be terrified. There has been a sharp dip towards conservatism that will only accelerate with Trump back at the helm in the US. Brexit didn't occur in a vacuum.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 29 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Though this isn't about conservatism, is it? Trump doesn't like democracy and half of the things that shaped the USA. I mean there is some overlap but he should be opposed by any sane conservative. I think it's more a dip towards fascism or something else.

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[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 69 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

By finally doing what it clearly needs to do, splitting in multiple countries so red States can finally become third world countries like they so want to be.

[–] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 43 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's funny that the last time this was floated by Republicans, they thought they were kicking the Democrat states out.

In other words, they thought they were keeping the Federal government.

Republican states need Democrat states far more than vice versa.

If Trump truly does win, Republicans won't split the country. They'll make it even more impossible to leave.

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[–] card797@champserver.net 66 points 1 week ago (3 children)

America has past the point of no return on education. Anti-intellectualism is the status quo now. It's only gonna get worse now.

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[–] ashok36@lemmy.world 65 points 1 week ago (4 children)

What do you mean? Trump won decisively. Electoral, popular, in the senate, etc...

You're really asking, "how does a minority continue to exist in the face of a fascist majority?"

The answer is, generally, they don't.

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[–] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 61 points 1 week ago (20 children)

Honestly at this point y'all should just get the fuck out. Where to? Anywhere honestly. You'll probably find the third world preferable to a post project 2025 Murica.

Russia's been having a major brain drain issue as all people with functioning brains either have escaped or want to escape the country. I don't see why Americans should do any different.

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[–] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 61 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Facism is capitalism in decay. America just proved that the decay is rapid.

Liberal institutions just paved the way for facism to take root.

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[–] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 58 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

This isn't sides anymore.

Until America wants to be tolerant of more than intolerance, it seems it will vote with its penises, wallets, and weapons.

Edit: unnecessary apostrophe

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[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 54 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The average death age of any empire is 250 years.

Tick tock America. You're proving that figure to be correct.

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[–] Fester@lemm.ee 51 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Hope there will be a legitimate election in 2028, and show up to the fucking primary before it and in 2026.

I think Trump won because of the economy. Yes, he has a rabid base that really does want his fascism, but the voters who pushed him over the edge are ones suffering because inflation and the wealth gap that has just been allowed to increase unimpeded. Those voters don’t want fascism - they’re just dumb AF and don’t pay attention. They just voted for “change.”

These problems will only increase over the next 4 years, so there will be another opportunity defy the status quo in 2028. We had a chance and failed to do in 2016. We came closer in 2020. We didn’t have a real primary in 2024. When we get to 2028, it’s time to fucking do it.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 34 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Ah yes, because nothing says "change" like "unchecked conservatism"

[–] Fester@lemm.ee 43 points 1 week ago

Well I did say they are dumb AF.

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[–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 49 points 1 week ago (10 children)

I'm not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.

With a functional justice department we'd have a chance. There's nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines. There's nothing to stop them from not certifying an election. We're about to have the scotus filled with young like-minded Republicans. We're about to have every federal judge biased for them.

Even having both sides of Congress the best thing we could do would be to status quo because every time a veto is overturned the scotus could just stamp it down as unconstitutional.

The president has God King status, he can have opponents jail for executed.

The thing is even if none of these things were in play, The popular vote just voted for a dictatorship. He was utterly and absolutely clear and anyone that says he was joking around doesn't actually believe that they're just too embarrass socially to announce that they themselves are racist/fascist/misogynist. There is nothing here to win back. We're better than 50% rotten to the core and those people aren't going away.

Even this election wasn't right versus left it's right versus more right. If you put a true left candidate in they're just going to get murdered. (That may or may not be literal)

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[–] MudMan@fedia.io 48 points 1 week ago (3 children)

See, there's the horrifying possibility that they just did and this is what Americans are.

Eh, forget it. they probably need a minute before reckoning with that one.

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[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 45 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

THIS is the moment where everyone should be creating 3rd party candidates and going to the streets to spread awareness for the next election.

Not 6 months before the election with trump as a possibility. Get out there and promote 3rd party now, when people are pissed at Democrats for throwing it all away for Israel and people are pissed the trump won.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 36 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

IMO third party is not viable unless we change our voting system, but people keep voting out the progressive reform party so fat chance.

EDIT: 100% for independents in Congress tho, as long as it doesnt split the vote for progressives.

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[–] Willie@lemmy.world 44 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Wait 2 years, and hopefully put people who will mitigate the damage into the positions listed on your ballot. All you can do now as a law abiding citizen is wait.

[–] intelisense@lemm.ee 45 points 1 week ago (12 children)

I fear that the next election will be more ceremony than democracy once they have finished rigging it. At this point, I expect a third term for Trump - if he lives that long.

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[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 44 points 1 week ago (3 children)

They just did. They'll happily lie in the bed they shat in at first. By the time they realize their mistake, it will be too late.

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[–] EnderMB@lemmy.world 42 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Go to your Democratic party and demand change.

Find a candidate that will stand on the basis of free healthcare, equal rights, the right to union, enforcing a higher minimum wage, enforcing paid sick leave and a minimum of 20 days holiday a year, and committing to lowering the cost of living.

Once someone stands up for this, push them to the moon for the next four years. Tell anyone else NOT on this platform to fuck off.

Essentially, America needs a Project 2029.

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[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 42 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Biden could do some official acts. But he won't.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 57 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But he won't

Should be the DNC motto.

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[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 41 points 1 week ago (12 children)

It's been "too late" for 'mericans to "win back the country" for a couple of decades at least. I mean, the entire electoral/voting system needs to be redone from the ground up because it's very non-democratic.

[–] dan1101@lemm.ee 39 points 1 week ago (10 children)

If Trump won the electoral college but not the popular vote I'd say it is.non-Democratic. But he won the popular vote too. So half the country are just self destructive.

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[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 38 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I'm not usually known for preaching peace, as I genuinely do not believe there is a peaceful way to defeat fascism. But, now is not the time to kill anyone. Violence at this moment would be ineffective and unfocused.

For the next four years (assuming Trump is not wholesale slaughtering us) becoming a politician would be a better use of your time than engaging in violence. For the next year or two, civic engagement (or political subversion) will have more effect than physically fighting

However, if widespread murder of the innocent begins taking place, please disregard my peaceful message.

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[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 36 points 1 week ago

They're the political opposition now. They should do what good opposition work includes. Hold the government accountable, force them to deliver results. Make the people pay attention and realize if their bills become less or more expensive. And I'd say re-consider life-choices. And make some fundamental changes. Maybe start a new political party if the Democrats are beyond hope.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago

Americans have lost. Bestyou can do is try to save NATO.

[–] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago

Realistically? It's too late.

We now have an ultra-conservative SC for the rest of our lives. The Republican party openly stated and ran on making fundamental changes to our government if they won the House/Senate/Presidency and to "defeat the enemy within".

It doesn't even really matter if the suffering that is coming shocks our society into rebounding in 4 years. The locked in SC and fundamental changes to our government will have already been set in place. Government departments will be run by appointees with absolutely no experience. Entire departments could be re-staffed with partisan political appointees if we are to believe the words of some of the people Trump promised to appoint. We have been placed squarely on the path to decline. That decline won't happen overnight, but in our lifetimes it will become undeniable. We will probably barely recognize this country by the end of our lives.

This election determined the political order we will live under for the rest of our lives.

Buy a gun. Try to find happiness within your immediate sphere. And stay safe, if you can. Very, very few people will come out on top in the scenario we now find ourselves in. Give it a few years and you'll see. They have total control now, so there's no one else to blame for the decline that's essentially guaranteed to become apparent in the near future. But I'm sure if they do fail, immigrants will be at the top of the blame list.

It was a worthy experiment while it lasted.

[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago (3 children)

There's nothing to win back, this is America, always has been.

You let it burn.

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