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He's a lawless, fascist murderer. (slrpnk.net)

submitted 4 months ago by Five to c/memes

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after St. Louis police unions instructed officers to publicly display The Punisher's insignia (the mark of a lawless, fascist murderer) the comic book community was quick to point out the stupidity, and the frankly horrifying message sent by supposed peace officers endorsing a maniac. So it's a good thing The Punisher personally confirms he hates cops who see him as a friend… making every cop who "wears his mark" or calls themselves a "fan" look like shameful fool in the process.

-- Andrew Dyce, The Punisher Confirms: He HATES Cops Who Support Him

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[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 148 points 4 months ago

If fascists could read they'd be very upset

[-] thecrimsonchin8@lemmy.world 108 points 4 months ago

They like him because they want to LARP as a reckless, vengeance seeking gunslinger who eliminates anyone who they feel has wronged them or who is "wrong". As in so many other circumstances, they've missed the point and the intended message.

[-] Stern@lemmy.world 53 points 4 months ago

The ol' Walter White/Rick Sanchez/Joker/Patrick Batemen "hes literally me fr fr" but for adult men doing an actual job. It'd be cringey if they weren't in a position of authority.

[-] thecrimsonchin8@lemmy.world 27 points 4 months ago

Still pretty cringey tbh. The fact that there's so many people (mostly white men) who run around fantasizing about gunning down people they disagree with is sad, and terrifying. It's a whole subculture of violence obsessed gun nuts with a victim complex and low self esteem.

[-] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 months ago

It is important to remember that even the actual brownshirts were a bunch of fucking dorks.

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[-] BolexForSoup@kbin.social 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Rick & Morty this season really turned a corner with how they interpret Rick and how truly lonely/shitty his life can be because of his very serious personality flaws. Big fan of what they’re doing. Lots of self reflection on the show, more nuanced debates about rick and morty’s (toxic) relationship somehow despite how often it’s brought up, strong mirrors back on the audience. It’s strong stuff

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[-] BestBouclettes@jlai.lu 62 points 4 months ago

The punisher is a murdering lawless maniac but I don't think he's a fascist, is he?

[-] Stern@lemmy.world 46 points 4 months ago

Punisher 2099 was fascist (Wouldn't kill cops, and became part of Doom 2099's regime when he took over America.) but Frank Castle Punisher (A.k.a. the one we know.)? Pretty much equal opportunity murderer of criminals and baddies.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago

I don't think that makes him fascist, just a broken person with twisted morals attempting to do good (in his mind). IIRC, he makes no attempt to push his morals beyond himself.

In fact, doesn't he specifically tell people not to be like him?? That's very much NOT fascie behavior.

[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 13 points 4 months ago

Idk, a lot of fascist ideology revolves around a single person being able to save society via strength and commitment. Instead of society being able to enact meaningful changes through the proper means, we need someone who can cut through the bureaucracy and just take out the "bad guys".

Unfortunately a lot of western writing reinforces the belief that individual greatness can overcome even the most difficult situations. This isn't saying that all western authors are fascist, rather that most of the stories we tell require a first person perspective for us to resonate with it.

This is why the most popular propaganda films in Nazi Germany weren't films like triumph of the will, but instead were films like The Lives of a Bengal Lancer and Gabriel Over the Whitehouse.

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[-] Alleywurds@kbin.social 34 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I assume they mean "murderer of fascists?"

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[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 23 points 4 months ago

A fascist is someone who supports a single strong leader with total control of the nation. 'Dictator' was an actual position in the Roman Republic; the people could vote to give one man absolute power for a period of time. Makes sense if you're dealing with a natural disaster or invasion and don't have time to go through the usual channels. Fascism became popular in the chaos of the post WW1 era. Things were changing rapidly, and conservatives wanted to rein in the 'undesirables.' Ironically, the Communist Russian Revolution was a huge spur to the creation of numerous fascist parties across Europe.

Frank Castle, the Punisher, is not a fascist. He isn't interested in taking power for himself, and doesn't want a dictator. He often speaks of having the greatest respect for Captain America, the guy who always chooses the side of liberty and fair play. Frank knows that he's a criminal and a murderer. He just doesn't care. IMHO if he and the Joker were both locked up and unable to kill each other, the two would get along fine.

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[-] dmention7@lemm.ee 17 points 4 months ago

I don't really see how he could be construed as one, other than the kneejerk "fascism is when bad things".

The whole point is that he's not like cops.

[-] Five 6 points 4 months ago

How fascist he is depends on who is writing him. His symbol is literally a stylized Nazi totenkopf, and while he has never voiced support for totalitarian leaders, his solution to crime - escalating the violence - is consistent with fascist ideology.

[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 19 points 4 months ago

People used skulls as a symbol of death long before the Nazis.

[-] Tedrow@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

Associating his symbol with that is a huge stretch.

[-] Five 15 points 4 months ago

Stretch? Gerry Conway, the original author, planned the character to use the totenkopf, and the artist re-worked the symbol.

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[-] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 43 points 4 months ago

Last time I went through US customs the agent checking me had his backpack behind him with a punisher patch (plus a thin blue line one, because of course he did). Gotta use true fashy believers to check all them damn immigrants and all that...

[-] doingless@lemmy.world 39 points 4 months ago

Thin blue line is a gang symbol. We need to normalize asking people with thin blue line bullshit why they're flying gang symbols.

[-] magnetosphere@kbin.social 9 points 4 months ago

I’ve occasionally seen the black and white American flag with one red line instead of the blue one. Apparently it’s meant to show support for paramedics and firefighters. I wish that one was more popular.

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[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 38 points 4 months ago

The way they cropped it, they leave out the best part. Here's the full interaction. 4 pages from Punisher #13:

[-] snooggums@kbin.social 10 points 4 months ago

Yeah, the whole bit about how they should be looking up to Captain America as a role model is the most important part.

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago

Who is on the roof

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[-] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 34 points 4 months ago

He's definitely a lawless murderer, and the types of cops that display his insignia certainly seem to lean fascist, but what makes the Punisher fascist?

[-] IvanOverdrive@lemm.ee 14 points 4 months ago

I think in this case "fascist" means "anything I don't like." You know, like "socialism".

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[-] CurlyWurlies4All 10 points 4 months ago

Believes might makes right? But I read the headline here that he's a fascist-murderer not a Fascist who is a murderer

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[-] cobysev@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago

Here's the full comic scene so you don't need to skim through the whole article to get the bits and pieces of it.

[-] Endorkend@kbin.social 22 points 4 months ago

There's a saying I first heard from cops in my country and then later saw pop up in several TV shows, the last one clear in memory being The Rookie.

The saying embodies that whenever cops decide to group together to the point of getting a symbol or name for said group, it's only a matter of time before they go to jail.

In corrupt countries, they may not actually go to jail, but the point is that whenever cops do this, criminality will always ensue.

[-] dylanmorgan 12 points 4 months ago

I don’t know where the US fits in your consideration of corruption but cops very rarely go to jail here, even (especially?) when they form up around a symbol. Here’s one example: the long-lived murderous LA Sheriff’s Department gangs. https://knock-la.com/tradition-of-violence-lasd-gang-history/

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I saw a Don't Tread on Me sticker right next to a Thin Blue Line sticker the other day (on the back of a giant fuck-off Ford truck, of course) and was like "that dude needs to make up his fuckin' mind."

[-] scottywh@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

"Tread harder, daddy!" seems more like it

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[-] BolexForSoup@kbin.social 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The image is kind of wrong. The punisher does not hate cops. He doesn’t like cops that celebrate what he does.

I have read a lot of punisher over the years, and the thing that always infuriates me is how much handwringing there is by some of the writers that always ends up backsliding into “but it’s still pretty cool that he murders people with his super cool guns and a skull on his chest.” The only way to truly break from that image is to completely abandon who the punisher is and enter a new phase entirely that does not regress again. It needs to be like God of War 4. Kratos is not the same person he once was. Yes he is capable of violence, but he clearly does not relish it and does everything he can to avoid conflict as well as truly tries to teach his son that actions have consequences. He has had a spiritual change, essentially, and it is reflected in his actions and demeanor. No, he has not mastered it, no it is not perfect, but he is consistently trying to be better and grow. I cannot say the same for Frank Castle. It always becomes “…but I have to” when he’s barely tried anything else as he then instigates conflict.

Brief moments of “the punisher is actually kind of bad y’all“ that is always surrounded by constant firearm fetishization and glorifying murder/masculinity is just not convincing. No amount of little moments of clarity can fix that.

[-] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It's like all those non-Catholic Christians who display Crusader symbols. They are forgetting that the Crusaders would have murdered believers like them in a heartbeat. Plus the Crusaders probably killed more Christians than Muslims and Jews, since the Muslim conquerors would force the local Christian population to fight on their side.

[-] daemoz@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

The Christians, at least during the 3rd crusade fought because they knew the crusaders would murder them despite being Christian. King Richard 'the lion heart' had entire towns brutally murdered for mere convenience. Christians looked to Saladin since he was their refuge from the europeans and when he sacked cities didnt banish or commit genocide. Saladin ended up losing his support in the end because he limited his army from pillaging.

[-] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Is he fascist?

I don't read a lot of punisher comics.

To be perfectly clear about my experience with this character, I have watched the thomas jane punisher movie, which is a straight up vengeance movie.

But I never got the impression the punisher was fascist.

He doesn't seem like a pro-dictatorship kind of guy.

Is he, in the comics?

[-] JustUseMint@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

Did one of us misread? Title says fascist murderer like I took it as he kills them.

[-] Irishred88@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago

Grammar is funny that way it could be interpreted your way or it could be interpreted as "fascist who murders"

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[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

No he's not. The point is that cops wearing his symbol are fucking idiots. The punisher is a lawless vigilante who hates cops. Cops - an organization created to enforce laws - have no business wearing the symbol of a lawless vigilante, and they're stupid idiots for wearing the symbol of one that hates their whole organization.

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[-] slumlordthanatos@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

The Punisher is a monster whose only redeeming feature is that he preys on those worse than him.

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[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 13 points 4 months ago

Cops are some of the biggest fan boys out there. The movie 'The French Connection*' inspired them to wear Popeye's hat and ankle holster. Magnum PI inspired them to grow mustaches. The TV show Hill Street Blues got them wearing turtlenecks.

*If you haven't seen it, watch 'The French Connection.' Great New York locations, Oscar winning actors, and one of the best car chases ever filmed.