this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2024
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[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 59 points 3 days ago (12 children)

TLDR: IMO drag is an abusive troll, so I blocked them. IMO Grail is genuine (though terminally online), I haven't blocked Them yet but They def are close due to having some shitty beliefs on some things (narcissism, politically inactive queers, etc). Also a bonus paragraph about my gender identity because I felt it fit(? IDK I'm tired AF and rambling).

Personally I saw drag's online behaviour as abusive and trolling so they got my standard response to that kind of behaviour; reported and blocked. On one of my alts I encountered them advocating for someone's suicide, then I blocked them across all of my accounts instead of just my main. (Looking at the modlog for them should be enough to see their pattern of behaviour )

In terms of Grail on the other hand I don't respect Their claims of divinity because I'm staunchly atheist. It has nothing to do with Their gender and is purely about Their claims of being a goddess. Will I capitalize Their pronouns when I use them? Sure, if I remember to go back and edit them as my phone likes to auto correct them constantly. (Hell I was in the thread awhile back with them trying to help them come up with a method so that their preferences could easily be seen by others because they were throwing a fit about a mod "misgendering" them by not remembering to capitalize their pronouns (The Post))

In regards to my gender: frankly I don't give a damn. I don't have strong opinions about my gender and I present how I please, which wanders about the gender spectrum‡. Personally I feel that agender-genderfluid is basically my label in that regard. Just don't refer to me in a dehumanizing way and we'll be fine. I reflect that by not having pronouns in my bios or usernames.

‡ The gender spectrum itself is complex and multi-axial but that's the short and sweet of it.

IDK man, I'm just here to have a good time and not have to dodge abusive trolls and tip toe through the daisies for people who throw a fit when they get hit with my default way of referring to people (they/them).

Y'all are decent folk around here but I do feel there's a decent amount who need to step outside and touch grass (myself included)

[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 2 days ago

Most people do not even truly know just how much of an abusive troll drag really is. I've already posted about it multiple times, and I'll add it here if I have to, but I was harassed directly by an alt of that user, which included porn in my DMs, insults, bad faith accusations, encouragement of suicide, and even death threats (combined with a request to admins to give out my IP).

I'm almost completely certain dragonfucker was behind this harassment and abusive behavior towards me. It happened almost immediately after I responded to one of dragonfucker's posts, that dragonfucker did not like and also wasn't well received by the community (ended up getting removed) the post itself was ironically an accusation towards me of harassment. Very sus indeed.

Then there's the whole thing where dragonfucker encouraged trans people to kill red hats before committing suicide, basically encouraging suicide and murder. Then there was dragonfucker's harassment towards @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world which isn't talked about often if at all but was really shitty, and I watched it happen in front of me.

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 22 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Interesting take. I haven’t seen any poor behavior from drag at any point and, unless I’ve missed something, drag seems to be a fine and well-contributing member of this community.

Grail, on the other hand, I have no doubt is a troll. Aside from their consistent behavior, they were heavily involved with mindtraveller (if anyone remembers them) who was also very clearly a troll. Granted, they may also just be heavily narcissistic. Regardless, I refuse to entertain claims of divinity. The assertion that someone must be referred to as a god/goddess/superior being of any form is an assault on my and others’ freedom of religion, spirituality, or lack thereof.

No individual is inherently above or below another, nor will I be intimidated into referring to them as such - be it by them, mods, or anyone else.

[–] zeezee 22 points 3 days ago (3 children)

drag seems to be a fine and well-contributing member of this community.

idk I can respect drag's neopronoun but I'd imagine drag would get much less hate if it wasn't for shit like this

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I don’t really see this as encouraging suicide. Drag explicitly stated that another option is preferable. Could’ve been worded better, sure, and it’s in very poor taste, but… I cant say I disagree…

Is nazis dying suddenly a bad thing now?

[–] pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Fuck, hadn't seen stuff like that. Opinion changed.

[–] chocosoldier@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

you, you're doing it right. behavior is not an excuse to knowingly misgender someone. everything else in this thread is beside the point.

[–] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Wanting to fuck dragons isn't a gender. It's somewhere between kink and orientation.

[–] PeachyMcPeachface@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

Banning the user above for anti-trans rhetoric. Explaining the position here because we're consistently repeating ourselves and it's exhausting.

Drag's user name is Dragon Rider. I would assume the neopronoun "Drag" is a shortening of Dragon but even if not bare with me... Pronouns exist to replace nouns. Our name (or in this case online, our username) is a proper noun. People rejecting pronouns in favor of just using their name isn't new. I don't know why the community is so upset about this. You are well within your opinion to not like people. Whatever, you're allowed to hate Drag as a person. Don't hate Drag because you dislike Drag's pronouns.

Even then, why tf do you care that someone wants to be called Drag? I don't care about alternate account's NAMES. We can't prove whether or not Drag has alt accounts and even then, why do you care? Care about Drag's actions.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The more I end up running into Grail the more they give me narcissist vibes. Especially their stance that "critising narcissism is actually a conservative view point"

Not to mention the amount of times they seem to find excuses to link back to their blog articles.

I'm not sure who mindtraveler was/is but looking at Grail's recent comment history, yeah I hadn't seen the worst of their behavior as we're, in general, in different parts of the site.

Whether or not someone is an abusive troll has no bearing on the respectful use of pronouns. I have two concerns here: ensuring people are respected and not encouraging the trolls. If either or both individuals here are trolling, they're getting exactly what they want with our collective response.

In response, I made a process guide for online encounters like these. It works regardless of the other party's motives and better frustrates trolls. If you have the mental/emotional bandwidth, let me know what you think.

Step 1: Treat everyone with respect, including respecting their communication preferences. If it becomes obvious they're not being serious and/or respectful themselves (ball/sack, dog/shit), then simply disengage and report. Their bad behavior doesn't justify anyone else's bad behavior in response, especially because that's what trolls want.

Step 2: If there's only suspicion their requests/preferences are somehow a form of trolling, harassment, or the like, either...
2.1: Respectfully ask non-accusatory questions for clarification, then return to step 1
Or
2.2: Disengage, report to a mod, and let them handle this shit

Rinse and repeat.

There are two overwhelmingly likely results to this little workflow.

  1. A troll is treated with kindness and respect until it's found they're trolling, after which engagement ceases and mods have to deal with their shit. Remember: trolls get off on watching other people's outrage. No response = no outrage = an unsatisfying trolling session.
  2. Someone who is not trolling but is having a difficult time being understood is treated with kindness and respect.
[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

based

Edit: but also i want to point out that it sometimes helps to talk to people. Drag for example, might be a 15 year old edge-lord, for all i know. I don't want to be insulting, but also i would think talking to (plural) them would make more sense than perma-blocking them.

Of course i recognize that barely anyone has the energy to do it. Just mentioning it.

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[–] Anarki_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 3 days ago

I just don't engage with those users and things stay chill.

I do enjoy watching the show, though.

[–] introvertcatto@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 3 days ago (2 children)
[–] chocosoldier@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 3 days ago

Those users use neopronouns and apparently for a lot of people it's beyond the limit of their ability to not gatekeep queer people. There was an announcement about it from the admin that was basically "yeah neopronouns are valid, don't misgender anyone period" and several people completely lost their shit and made threads to bitch about it in.

[–] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 10 points 3 days ago (3 children)

If you don't use the pronouns a user lists in their bio when referring to that user you'll catch a ban. There is a user who has dragon as their pronoun and anyone not using it is being banned.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No. The person you are referring to uses "drag" as pronouns, but is also ok with they/them.

People who can't simply use either of those options, and insist on getting in to a discussion about what identities they think are valid are the folk getting banned.

If you simply ignore the users whose pronouns you find challenging, or use their pronouns and avoid starting/continuing discourse offering your personal opinions about whether or not someone elses identity is valid, there are no bans.

[–] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago

avoid starting/continuing discourse offering your personal opinions about whether or not someone elses identity is valid, there are no bans.

The OP here is literally starting discourse offering their personal opinions about whether or not someone else's identity is valid.

[–] chocosoldier@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's very simple, just don't go around willfully misgendering people. if you can't bring yourself to gender someone correctly simply don't refer to him/her/them/It/drag. identity should not be gatekept by anyone for any reason, and i wholeheartedly support this policy.

[–] introvertcatto@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Idk I think it's okay rule. Use persons preferred pronouns unless you don't know it then use they/them since it's basically gender neutral.

[–] zagaberoo@beehaw.org 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Part of the drama is people getting in trouble for using they/them, look at the screenshot being used against Gormadt in this very thread.

It's a thorny issue to be sure, but I still struggle to see what's wrong with they/them.

[–] Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (13 children)

Using they/them when someone asks you not to is a shitty thing to do and should not be acceptable on an instance that’s supposed to be a safe space for queer people.

[–] chocosoldier@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

so many people are willfully missing this very simple point, and it says a lot about how they really think about trans people.

[–] zagaberoo@beehaw.org 2 points 3 days ago

Of course, but it's not clear at all that's what's happening in the screenshot.

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