this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2024
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TLDR: IMO drag is an abusive troll, so I blocked them. IMO Grail is genuine (though terminally online), I haven't blocked Them yet but They def are close due to having some shitty beliefs on some things (narcissism, politically inactive queers, etc). Also a bonus paragraph about my gender identity because I felt it fit(? IDK I'm tired AF and rambling).
Personally I saw drag's online behaviour as abusive and trolling so they got my standard response to that kind of behaviour; reported and blocked. On one of my alts I encountered them advocating for someone's suicide, then I blocked them across all of my accounts instead of just my main. (Looking at the modlog for them should be enough to see their pattern of behaviour )
In terms of Grail on the other hand I don't respect Their claims of divinity because I'm staunchly atheist. It has nothing to do with Their gender and is purely about Their claims of being a goddess. Will I capitalize Their pronouns when I use them? Sure, if I remember to go back and edit them as my phone likes to auto correct them constantly. (Hell I was in the thread awhile back with them trying to help them come up with a method so that their preferences could easily be seen by others because they were throwing a fit about a mod "misgendering" them by not remembering to capitalize their pronouns (The Post))
In regards to my gender: frankly I don't give a damn. I don't have strong opinions about my gender and I present how I please, which wanders about the gender spectrum‡. Personally I feel that agender-genderfluid is basically my label in that regard. Just don't refer to me in a dehumanizing way and we'll be fine. I reflect that by not having pronouns in my bios or usernames.
‡ The gender spectrum itself is complex and multi-axial but that's the short and sweet of it.
IDK man, I'm just here to have a good time and not have to dodge abusive trolls and tip toe through the daisies for people who throw a fit when they get hit with my default way of referring to people (they/them).
Y'all are decent folk around here but I do feel there's a decent amount who need to step outside and touch grass (myself included)
Most people do not even truly know just how much of an abusive troll drag really is. I've already posted about it multiple times, and I'll add it here if I have to, but I was harassed directly by an alt of that user, which included porn in my DMs, insults, bad faith accusations, encouragement of suicide, and even death threats (combined with a request to admins to give out my IP).
I'm almost completely certain dragonfucker was behind this harassment and abusive behavior towards me. It happened almost immediately after I responded to one of dragonfucker's posts, that dragonfucker did not like and also wasn't well received by the community (ended up getting removed) the post itself was ironically an accusation towards me of harassment. Very sus indeed.
Then there's the whole thing where dragonfucker encouraged trans people to kill red hats before committing suicide, basically encouraging suicide and murder. Then there was dragonfucker's harassment towards @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world which isn't talked about often if at all but was really shitty, and I watched it happen in front of me.
Interesting take. I haven’t seen any poor behavior from drag at any point and, unless I’ve missed something, drag seems to be a fine and well-contributing member of this community.
Grail, on the other hand, I have no doubt is a troll. Aside from their consistent behavior, they were heavily involved with mindtraveller (if anyone remembers them) who was also very clearly a troll. Granted, they may also just be heavily narcissistic. Regardless, I refuse to entertain claims of divinity. The assertion that someone must be referred to as a god/goddess/superior being of any form is an assault on my and others’ freedom of religion, spirituality, or lack thereof.
No individual is inherently above or below another, nor will I be intimidated into referring to them as such - be it by them, mods, or anyone else.
idk I can respect drag's neopronoun but I'd imagine drag would get much less hate if it wasn't for shit like this
I don’t really see this as encouraging suicide. Drag explicitly stated that another option is preferable. Could’ve been worded better, sure, and it’s in very poor taste, but… I cant say I disagree…
Is nazis dying suddenly a bad thing now?
Fuck, hadn't seen stuff like that. Opinion changed.
you, you're doing it right. behavior is not an excuse to knowingly misgender someone. everything else in this thread is beside the point.
Wanting to fuck dragons isn't a gender. It's somewhere between kink and orientation.
Banning the user above for anti-trans rhetoric. Explaining the position here because we're consistently repeating ourselves and it's exhausting.
Drag's user name is Dragon Rider. I would assume the neopronoun "Drag" is a shortening of Dragon but even if not bare with me... Pronouns exist to replace nouns. Our name (or in this case online, our username) is a proper noun. People rejecting pronouns in favor of just using their name isn't new. I don't know why the community is so upset about this. You are well within your opinion to not like people. Whatever, you're allowed to hate Drag as a person. Don't hate Drag because you dislike Drag's pronouns.
Even then, why tf do you care that someone wants to be called Drag? I don't care about alternate account's NAMES. We can't prove whether or not Drag has alt accounts and even then, why do you care? Care about Drag's actions.
The more I end up running into Grail the more they give me narcissist vibes. Especially their stance that "critising narcissism is actually a conservative view point"
Not to mention the amount of times they seem to find excuses to link back to their blog articles.
I'm not sure who mindtraveler was/is but looking at Grail's recent comment history, yeah I hadn't seen the worst of their behavior as we're, in general, in different parts of the site.
Whether or not someone is an abusive troll has no bearing on the respectful use of pronouns. I have two concerns here: ensuring people are respected and not encouraging the trolls. If either or both individuals here are trolling, they're getting exactly what they want with our collective response.
In response, I made a process guide for online encounters like these. It works regardless of the other party's motives and better frustrates trolls. If you have the mental/emotional bandwidth, let me know what you think.
Step 1: Treat everyone with respect, including respecting their communication preferences. If it becomes obvious they're not being serious and/or respectful themselves (ball/sack, dog/shit), then simply disengage and report. Their bad behavior doesn't justify anyone else's bad behavior in response, especially because that's what trolls want.
Step 2: If there's only suspicion their requests/preferences are somehow a form of trolling, harassment, or the like, either...
2.1: Respectfully ask non-accusatory questions for clarification, then return to step 1
Or
2.2: Disengage, report to a mod, and let them handle this shit
Rinse and repeat.
There are two overwhelmingly likely results to this little workflow.
based
Edit: but also i want to point out that it sometimes helps to talk to people. Drag for example, might be a 15 year old edge-lord, for all i know. I don't want to be insulting, but also i would think talking to (plural) them would make more sense than perma-blocking them.
Of course i recognize that barely anyone has the energy to do it. Just mentioning it.
Meanwhile, coming out the other side of your mouth:
You insist on dictating what is a valid thing to want to be called, and and outright proclaim your intent to disrespect anyone outside of that, literally because you don't care enough. While over here justifying yourself by finding reasons they're bad or irrational people, or why you personally don't feel their gender is valid, and ultimately hiding behind your own feelings about your own gender as if it should your shitty bigoted take more palatable. Adding a third option doesn't make you more tolerant when you're still insisting everyone keep their identities in your comfort zone.
Nothing they said there seems unreasonable. They/them seems like a perfectly normal (and more importantly neutral) default way of referring to people. If I was in person with someone, and they started throwing a fit because I defaulted to they/them for them (which I usually do), I would assume they were a bigot who doesn't understand pronouns.
Not saying that's the case with these other people, but I believe there's a reasonable limitation on how much you can expect strangers to assume/understand on first meeting.
... especially on lemmy, where the usernames are visible, but not really emphasized. It's a different story on people-centered platform, like Mastodon, or Bluesky. But I prefer not to know the usernames already on lemmy.
The problem lies with users who default to they/them even after being informed of the correct pronouns, especially users who continue to do so in the same comment thread. Making mistakes is going to happen, but quickly apologizing (even if you're arguing) and editing your message to resolve the mistake is the bare minimum. Even as a mod I really only recognize a few users and remember their pronouns (honestly, mostly because they overuse the reporting system), but when I engage with or talk about users I check profiles to see if any pronouns are posted in the bio. This is a trans-inclusive queer instance, respecting gender identity (YES EVEN CIS-HETERO PEOPLE) is incredibly important.
You say I'm intending to disrespect others but that isn't my intent at all, as even in my comment there I make my intent clear. My intent is to interact in "small talk" kind of way with people online as that is how I see online interactions. Small talk. And small talk doesn't require exchanging names to function properly.
In terms of respecting identies, I'm fully willing to respect people's genders.
When it comes to transhumanism that's where I start getting a bit wishy washy and I need to do some more pondering on. At this point my thinking is basically, "If you're identifying as a living thing then IDGAF. You're you, I'm me, and my brain is about as organized and focused as a garbage dump. I'm probably going to forget in general on most things so I hope you're okay with 'they/them' and other generic ways of referring to you."
Identifying as non-living things though is where I get a hang up. You're a living breathing critter on this miserable little mudball suspended in a sunbeam.
As an example: I blocked Drag for being an ass not for what they identify as. My interactions with them were limited but highly abrasive. I haven't blocked Grail because, though I think identifying as a goddess is something I don't support, They're not enough of an ass (behavior wise) to warrant blocking yet. My interactions with them have been limited and mild in general.
They/them are gender neutral / agnostic pronouns for referring to other, typically, living things both singular and plural. I make heavy use of them as they're easy. Much like how I refer to groups as "Y'all" and "Folks", or when greeting specific people IRL as "friend" or "bud".
I see interacting with people online the same way I see interacting with people on the bus or at work, typically fleeting and likely never going to interact with that person again. And interactions happening to the point I learn someone's name is, at best, rare.
Edit: Hopefully that makes sense? I am trying to be clear on my feelings on things. If not, I'm willing to continue chatting about it.
"i'm fully willing to respect peoples' genders"
goes on to explain in detail why some peoples' genders don't merit respect
continues pretending it's fine to they/them someone who specifically asked for different pronouns
yeah im done here
The fuck is wrong with you to try to make they/them, a gender neutral term to use when you don't know gender or pronoun preference of someone, a bad thing to use just 'cause...
no, the bad thing is doubling down on "nah, you get the pronouns i pick for you" after being informed. this user sticking their fingers in their ears and crying about ignorance is a red herring argument to set up some DARVO shit.