Welcome to the American corrections system, abuses like this and worse happen every day and we just don't normally hear about them because the defendants aren't famous like this one is
this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
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Its not a corrections system, it's a punishment system; unfortunately.
People aren't reformed after leaving prison. Many ex-cons are forced into even worse situations and have to resort back to crimes to survive.
I don't think a system that's focussed on rehabilitation rather than punishment would be popular with American voters.
Countries that do focus on rehabilitation in western democracies, often hand out less long sentences and treat their prisoners relatively nicely. Their own cell, tv, etc. Still prison though, being robbed of your freedom is punishment in and of itself. On average that leads to better outcomes, lower recidivism, ....
But on a case by case basis, discovering someone who committed a heinous crime was let out after 10 years? Sure, often monitored, evaluated, and with stringent conditions. Sure, only if the chance they'll do it again is very low. But still. It doesn't feel right. Same thing with nice prison cells. Show the average American a Norwegian prison cell, and tell them it houses a rapist, and they'll be understandably offended. Think it isn't fair. Which it almost certainly isn't, but you don't lower the chance of repeat offending by sticking someone in a cage for ten years.
Also, I do wonder if these kinds of prisons are possible in a country without a semi-decent social safety net. If jail's better than being homeless, and homelessness is rampant, people will commit crimes just to escape. You end up rewarding criminals, because jail is comparatively nice compared to their existence outside jail.
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I think it's crazy the number is people here who think that jail/prison is supposed to primarily be about punishment. Do they not understand the concept of recitavism?
I think that's an American thing compared to the rest of the world. Their prisons seem to be very much about punishment over rehabilitation.
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Recidivism:
the tendency of a convicted criminal to reoffend.
"the prison has succeeded in reducing recidivism"
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In these comments, People who:
- think vegetarian is close enough to vegan.
- don't realise vegan items are no longer vegan if they're for example, cooked in butter.
- want prisoners to rot in jail from the inside out, literally.
I don't think prison should be punitive, but I REALLY don't think jail should be punitive. You haven't been proven guilty of anything when you're in jail.
All of the food served in prison/jail is dogshit and it's not ok. Edible food is a human right. People with ethically based diet restrictions should be protected the same way that religiously based diet restrictions are.
Belief in a make believe sky-daddy doesn't make one persons ethical dietary choices more important than another's. Maybe the Satanic Temple can step in and help out the incarcerated vegans. That seems up their alley.
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I have noticed for a supposedly progressive network, there are a lot of posts recently on news stories about prisoners supporting capital punishment and wishing prison violence on them. Very odd stuff.
I'm hesitant to say PINO but there is definitely a cadre of folks who want (for example) food and shelter for the homeless and for their enemies to starve to death in a ditch.
Yeah, it's amazing how fast some people can dehumanise their perceived enemies yet stil think they're the good guys.
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Do you really expect a jail to cook things in butter? If they could get away with it, they would probably cook things in waste oil from the next garage.
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He is Vegan. Irrespective of how we feel about what he did, the failure to address his core ethical beliefs is completely unacceptable. If his belief was rooted in ideas of a higher being or afterlife, everyone would acknowledge how fucked up it is. Not that I'm planning on going to jail anytime soon, but the thought that I would not be able to abide by that daily practice of my life would be incredibly distressing. Unless he is doing it for environmental reasons (I don't know) he likely seeks total animal liberation, and you're going to force feed him stolen animal secretions? Coproducts of dead baby cows, blended up chicks, and beings bred into painful bodies? The alternative is malnutrition? I would highly consider Jainism or Sikhism on this fact alone. Fuck you if you think he should be forced to go against these ethical beliefs. It is 100% a human rights violation IMO.
That's a very sensationalist way to phrase your point and makes you sound fairly biased in the matter.
In the law, religious belief is a protected class, but dietary choice is not. A reasonable debate could be had about if it should be protected. The prison system nor the court room is the right forum, because it needs to be decided by the legislature.
Veganism it's not a simple dietary choice. Depending on how long the person has been vegan, a sudden switch could make them very sick.
And let's not pretend that prisons don't regularly disregard inmates dietary restrictions, even the medically necessary ones. It's easy to laugh at this one because 'haha vegan' but it's still atrocious to ignore any dietary restriction, let alone such a common one.
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Veganism is not strictly a dietary choice. Look into ethical veganism. In the UK, Ethical Vegans are a legally protected class. I understand they are not legally protected in America - this does not require me to change my position at all. I made it clear that it's my opinion, and I presented how I would personally feel to be in his position and what I might consider just to have that ethical belief respected.
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I keep seeing the sentiment in this thread that if you go to prison you basically deserve whatever happens to you, which is a fucked up stance in itself, but more importantly:
Why do the cows, chickens, etc. deserve to suffer because someone is in prison? Does that make sense in any moral framework? How would you feel if we bagged random people not guilty of anything and forced prisoners to watch them tortured "on their behalf" as a form of punishment? That's pretty much the same situation ethically and everyone would agree it's fucked up.
Yeah I admit I'm very torn about this. On the one hand this idiot kid managed to blast through 50 fucking BILLION dollars of other peoples' money and shows zero remorse. On the other hand, I'm wondering what the ethical responsibility of the state is for accommodating prisoners' dietary needs from medical conditions, religious observation, and ethical/personal preferences eg vegetarian/veganism etc. I don't like punishing people beyond what the court orders, and it is really disturbing when people cheer and joke about things like prison rape.
Seems to me it shouldn't be too difficult to make a vegan "meatloaf" type food that checks all the boxes. Sort of like ordering the Kosher meal on an airplane. It's not gonna be great but it'll get you there.
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Wait I'm legitimately confused about this.
I agree with you in the first paragraph.
I'm confused about what you mean by animals suffering because someone is in prison. Don't they suffer regardless of if someone is in prison? Like, the animal would die and be eaten, regardless of where the meat is sent.
I'm pro animal rights and all that btw, I just don't get the connection you are making here.
The meals will (I assume) be allocated on inmate numbers, so the animal will be reared, killed, transported, then thrown in the trash because someone doesn't want to eat it.
More generally this is the weird 'opt out' culture of food, where vegan is considered the exceptional position, which is kinda stupid, in my opinion.
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I don't believe his choices are THAT limited. Most prisons will have a self-service line with a choice of boiled veg, rice, beans, potatoes, pasta, fruit, grits, oats. Also, and just generally, boo hoo for him. Funny how his ethics extend to what he eats, but not who he steals from.
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I have a feeling the only reason this guy is facing consequences is because he defrauded other rich people.
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We never get news articles on how the common prisoner views the food. Fuck this billionaire thief and fuck NBC news.
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Jail should accommodate a vegan diet, but it also seems like they are to some extent. PB sandwiches are food. As long as he can cobble together a nutritionally complete diet, it isn't cruel to have boring meals. Obviously JUST peanut butter sandwiches won't do it but I have to think they have potatoes, beans, rice on the menu too, stuff like that.
Just because they're on the menu doesn't mean they're vegan. They're often made with meat or meat stocks.
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The only reason this is being talked about is because he was a billionaire. Boo hoo poor guy stole 7billion Dollars, and now can't have the lifestyle he was used to
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Yeast is alive he should go with just water. Also fuck him and everyone like him.
A second attorney for Bankman-Fried, Christian Everdell, also said in court Tuesday that serious Sixth Amendment need to be addressed because Bankman-Fried has no way to prepare and participate in his defense. Everdell said that he has had no access to discovery materials for 11 days and that there are only six weeks left to the start of the trial.
[…]
But he was remanded to jail this month over allegations of witness tampering. His trial is set to begin Oct. 2. On Aug. 11, Kaplan denied his request to delay detention pending an appeal.
Starting to look like it wasn't a smart move meddling in the case, Sam. Almost as if actions have repercussions.
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So let him buy his food from the commissary. The prison doesn't serve potatoes? You can live off potatoes alone for a long time. Is there juice, cereal, rice, or beans? I find it hard to believe there isn't. He's clearly exaggerating the limits of his diet.
It's jail. You don't get to go where you want, do what you want, wear what you want, or eat what you want. You don't get to make choices about your life. That is part of the punishment.
You should look at what prisoners get to eat in France. Here in Spain prisoners wear their own clothes, only guards wear uniforms.
I believe the idea of prison should be that you are punished by you're freedom of movement being taken away. Not by being forced to eat inedible food or food that goes against your moral code.
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So there IS a vegan option.
Bread and water.
They should get him those vegan meals the airlines have in economy class. That would work, no? Vegan enough for him to eat, but not enjoy.
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Bread, PB, and water is a perfectly fine meal. That shit was a delicacy when I was a kid in post-soviet Europe.
Besides, he's in jail because he fucked up his bond. He's not there to have a good time.
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