this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2024
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Down with under-screen fingerprint sensors! (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by Corndog@lemmy.world to c/android@lemmy.world
45 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

One of my favorite aspects of folding phones is the return of the fingerprint sensors built directly into the power button. This is objectively the ideal design, for reasons I assume I don't have to explain.

Lately, however, the novelty of folding phones is wearing off and I'm starting to think I'd just like something lighter and sleeker. Are there any recommendations for a phone with a power-button sensor that still has good specs and cameras?

Edit: for the purposes of this post, physical sensors on the back of the phone also count, since they can wake the phone and unlock it simultaneously.

And to clarify (I thought this was a thing everyone just inherently agreed on), the benefits of physical sensors are:

  1. accuracy. A physical sensors will always be more accurate (and thus have fewer issues) because it doesn't have to work THROUGH the screen. This has been improved a lot with newer technologies like ultrasonic readers, but it is literally impossible to be better than the same technology utilized without a screen in the way.
  2. wake/unlock in one motion. Since it's also a button, it can wake the phone and unlock it in one motion, rather than 2 separate ones. Again, newer tech has sort of worked around this with things like lift to wake or just having the sensor area ALWAYS scanning so you can unlock it from sleep regardless, but these are clunky software implementations that rely on your phone constantly actively trying to to figure out whether you're doing the thing or not, so it again can't be as efficient as just a normal button. Battery impact for these is also pretty minimal for the most part, but it's still not zero.
  3. tactility. You can feel the button, and manufacturers can put it where your hand naturally rests, meaning that you can unlock the phone BEFORE you have even taken it out of your pocket.
  4. cost. Physical sensors are hella cheap y'all. The technology to read the ridges on your finger through a sheet of plastic and glass is (turns out) kind of expensive. We're all being forced to pay for this dumb gimmick.
  5. durability. Screens get scratched and dinged up, which compromises the sensors ability to read. Physical sensors on the other hand are basically the most durable part of the phone. Again, mostly a non issue on newer phones, but it's yet another thing manufacturers have had to dump money into working around (and thus charging you more for).
  6. not impacted by screen protectors, rain on the screen, etc.
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[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world 50 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

The fingerprint reader on the back of the phone was the best, in my opinion.

[–] randombullet@programming.dev 24 points 3 weeks ago

Especially if it supported gestures.

Being able to pull down the notification shade with a swipe on the reader was my favorite feature.

[–] Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 3 weeks ago

I miss the LG G6's fingerprint reader, it was perfectly placed for me.

[–] calamitycastle@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

1000% agree. Pixel 3a / 4a era was the greatest

[–] monty33@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago

agreed! being able to unlock the phone while im pulling it out of my pocket was great. But the one place that fails is a phone sitting on a surface. i say give me two sensors! One one on the back and one under screen

[–] Ledivin@lemmy.world 42 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

This is objectively the ideal design, for reasons I assume I don't have to explain.

...can you explain? I don't understand the issue with the reader being underscreen, let alone why being on the power button is best.

[–] Contort3860@links.hackliberty.org 29 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I prefer a full-size physical sensor on the back of the phone myself. It tends to be more accurate and faster than the under screen ones I've dealt with. No idea about the power button ones. Convenient placement probably. Not sure about performance though.

[–] Jesus_666@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

In my experience rear-mounted sensors are the most accurate, closely followed by under-screen sensors. Side-mounted sensors are utter garbage.

Accuracy isn't even that much of an issue, it's that the side-mounted ones are far too easy to accidentally trigger just by handling the phone. I can't count the number of times my last two phones told me I had three incorrect fingerprint attempts after I had just pulled them out of my pocket.

Then I got a Pixel and I have no more such issues and virtually perfect accuracy. Same on a Samsung tablet. Same on an old phone I had where the power button was on the rear and had a full-size sensor.

Basically, I'm perfectly happy with any front- or rear-mounted full-size sensor. Those tiny side-mounted ones suck.

[–] sanguinepar@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

I loved the rear-mounted sensor on my old Pixel 2XL, as it could be configured to allow some swipe gestures too. I had mine set to open notifications on swipe down, which was really useful.

[–] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It's only ideal if you hit the power button on your phone. I never hit the power button on my phone except to turn it off. Raise to wake or tapping the screen is the only way I wake my phone.

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I don't even use it to turn it off.

Putting the phone face down or in my pocket does that for me.

I've used Gravity Screen for years to manage this.

[–] maniel@sopuli.xyz 9 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah, almost every placement has it's pros and cons, my only pet peeves is under screen ones are placed often too low, forcing you to change the way you're holding the phone

[–] Virkkunen@fedia.io 20 points 3 weeks ago

Your issues and bad experiences with under display sensors are probably because of an optical sensor. I've used ultrasonic ones and they work better than the capacitive on the back

[–] Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

I'm personally not a huge fan of the ones in the power button, they never worked very reliably in my experience. Even worse than the under-screen ones usually.

I'd love to see phones with a fingerprint sensor on the back though. Granted I have pretty big hands and could easily reach it. Always worked reliably for me, and on my oneplus 5t i could even set actions to swipes on the fingerprint sensor.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago

The one on my Moto G Power 5G works just fine. It has a side mounted power button with the fingerprint reader built into it. It reads very quickly, and apparently very accurately, so much so that 99% of the time I've tried it you can just press the power button normally with the correct finger and this also unlocks the phone. The advantage I can see there is that it does not require a separate action to operate at all.

(I don't keep my fingerprint reader activated, though, for security purposes. Down with fingerprint readers in general, at least if you live in the US where the police can compel you to supply your fingerprint to unlock your phone.)

The under-screen reader in my previous Moto Z4 never worked worth a damn.

Honestly I'm pretty impressed with the G Power 5G overall. It's a "budget" phone so certain people will inevitably get unreasonably butthurt over the lack of "premium," but is quite fast enough for everything I do, gets great battery life, has a headphone jack and memory card slot, a good screen that's 120hz capable, and it's only $200-250 depending on the color. I think its cameras are just fine. How so? Well, check out any of my post history over the last month or two -- All of my photos lately have been taken with that phone.

[–] FrameXX@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

they never worked very reliably in my experience.

It works perfectly on my phone (Poco X3 NFC). It is probably different from phone to phone.

[–] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 weeks ago

It's less that the sensor isn't good enough, and more than the human operating it isn't good enough.

I have an iPad 10th gen with the fingerprint power button and I never realized just how often I hit the power button with parts other than my finger tip.

[–] 8osm3rka@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I personally have the complete opposite experience with under-screen scanners. As in, it's literally the only type that works reliably for me. Before I got my samsung s22+, I never even realized that Android asks you for your pattern every 2 days because I had to manually unlock my old phones so often.

[–] tgxn@lemmy.tgxn.net 1 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah the non-optical, under-screen sensor on my S22 is awesome. I too preferred the side sensor on the power button of my S10e, but gone are the days we get what we want. Or else we'd still have it in the optimal position on the back of the phone.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

IDK, for me the under screen works fine. When I want to use my phone it turns on automatically when I pick it up, and when I touch the sensor area, it's instantly ready for use, with me holding it the way I want to use it, whether it's 1 or 2 hand use, or left or right hand.
I don't normally use the power button, except to turn off the screen when I'm finished using it.

[–] jacktherippah@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

The reader being under the screen makes the most sense in my opinion. It's the part of the phone you touch the most. And speed is a non issue anymore. Ultrasonic sensors are about as fast if not faster than the old capacitive ones now. They're also as accurate in my experience and after a while I've learned to put my finger exactly where it is so it's a non issue. It also unlocks when my finger is wet unlike the older capacitive ones which is huge for me. So in conclusion I disagree. Fingerprint sensors should be in display and ultrasonic.

[–] the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I really miss the rear fingerprint reader on my Galaxy S8. It was so effortless to pick it up and touch the sensor at the same time whenever I wanted to use my phone. Honestly, I miss the retina scanner as well. It always worked better and faster for me than the face thing that most phones have.

[–] BlindFrog@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Samesies. I had a huge nexus 6p back in the day, and I miss scrolling by swiping the rear fingerprint sensor.

[–] the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Oh yeah, I forgot about that! I could swipe down on the fingerprint sensor to look at my notifications! That so boss, dude.

[–] kokesh@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

My Xiaomi 12 has an in-screen sensor. I'm not going back to having to put my finger on Power button. This is fast and intuitive.

[–] EddoWagt@feddit.nl 5 points 3 weeks ago

Are there any recommendations for a phone with a power-button sensor that still has good specs and cameras?

Since nobody has given you a recommendation; The Sony Xperia 1 VI has that, although not available in the US

[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

While I don't like the under screen fingerprint reader (getting flash banged at night by it is a problem), and I prefer the back of phone fingerprint readers we used to have, I know at least two people that have had their phone replaced repeatedly by Samsung for the side button fingerprint reader failing.

I also have a pixel tablet with the power button fingerprint reader and it's awkward as hell especially with a case. I can't say that I'm completely against the in screen fingerprint reader (on my pixel 8 it works pretty much all the time), but I will say I definitely have a preference for other options. The placement of the power button also means I wouldn't be able to use it with both hands (the fingerprints from both hands), in the event that my dominant hand isn't free or the fingerprint I normally use is damaged etc.

[–] Mistic@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Mind you, there are two types of under screen fingerprint sensors: optical and ultrasonic.

Optical blasts the finger with light and forms a 2d scan. It's pretty slow and arguably worse than conventional (capacitive) scanner on the back of the phone.

Ultrasonic, however, because it uses sound waves, maps a 3d scan. It is significantly faster than conventional scanner, and it also doesn't care about your fingers being wet.

Ultrasonic sensor only requires a quick tap to unlock the phone. It's actually really convenient to use, I like those. I'd take the capacitive sensor over optical one, though.

[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is a really good point. I haven't really used any ultrasonic fingerprint readers so I have nothing to compare it to. I will say that on my pixel 7 it was more finicky and I had more false readings.

[–] strawberry@kbin.earth 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

your pixel 8 works almost all the time? mines fine until a get my hands wet (and for a while afterwards when they're still wrinkly), after working on my car and my hands arent perfectly clean, and sometimes it just decides it's not gonna work even though my hands are clean

[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

I would imagine that different people use their phones differently. At work I use my phone mostly for picture documentation which I use frequently but with a shortcut. So I don't have to unlock my phone all the time and when I do I'm usually wearing gloves so I'll use the pin instead of the fingerprint reader anyway. As a result very rarely am I using the phone when my fingers are wet, covered in grease or oil, etc. Cuts and burns do have a detrimental effect on the accuracy of my fingerprint sensor but they also don't happen enough on my fingertips to be a serious problem for me. As a result, I'm not having a lot of the same problems frequently that other users who use their phones under these circumstances do.

[–] Markaos@lemmy.one 5 points 3 weeks ago

manufacturers can put it where your hand naturally rests, meaning that you can unlock the phone BEFORE you have even taken it out of your pocket.

Idk, my "unlock" finger naturally rests wherever the fingerprint scanner is on my phone. When I had a rear fingerprint scanner, I used to have my phone's bottom right corner planted into my palm near the thumb and used the index finger to support its back near the scanner, so I was always ready to unlock it.

Now that I have an under-screen scanner, I use my pinky as a "shelf" for the phone's bottom side, ring finger to hold it on the far side and index finger along the near side (which makes me suspect this grip would work for in-power-button scanners too), and that makes my thumb naturally rest exactly on the spot where the scanner is. With (one) tap to wake, I have no problem unlocking the phone while taking it out of my pocket - literally just a quick double tap. Although it's true that you can't unlock the phone directly in the pocket like this, because the proximity sensor should prevent the tap to wake from working.

I used to have a phone with a scanner in the power button too, but I can't remember how I held it - I don't think it was the same way as now, because I'm pretty sure I never used to rest my thumb on screen like this.

[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 4 points 3 weeks ago

My fingerprint scanner is effectively my on button. I'm not snaking my finger up the side only to start swiping in the area my fingerprint scanner is in anyway. It's perfectly accurate and fast, and when I grab my phone my thumb is on the scanner before I've even pulled it out of my pocket. The vibration feedback when scanning starts and finishes is just fine, something I can't say of my laptop.

If you're someone who often breaks their phones, I can get the screen crack argument, but I've never had that issue. I don't know why a broken phone couldn't break the power button as well, though; if that's a concern, you'd probably want a phone with a scanner on the back. I don't have any issues with rain either (though that doesn't matter because the screen is inoperable when it rains anyway).

It sounds to me like you've experienced a bad fingerprint scanner or maybe just a bad phone in general.

[–] SleepyWheel@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 weeks ago

My old phone was a redmi note 10 pro with power button sensor and I did find it more accurate than my current pixel 7a under screen sensor. But it hasn't been a deal breaker for me

[–] 0x0@programming.dev 2 points 3 weeks ago

Aw c'mon, you can't go full dystopia without telescreens!

[–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

No scanner at all is the cheapest and it's just as efficient. I don't use mine so, if it has to have one, I really don't care where it goes.

[–] koper@feddit.nl 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I don't have an opinion on the matter being discussed

You know it's an option to just... keep scrolling right? This isn't high school, you aren't obliged to leave a comment.

[–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

How is "stop worrying about them, they're pointless" not an opinion on the matter of fingerprint sensors? And how do you know I'm not in high school?

[–] root@aussie.zone 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The side mounted finger print reader / power button on my old Sony Xperia XZ 1 Compact was great. Wish more phones had side mounted FP sensors.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 weeks ago

My S10e has one, it's fine.

[–] FleetingTit@feddit.org 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

  1. under screen fingerprint readers (USFR) have basically no accuracy problems? I find that mine rarely struggles to read my fingerprint, and the one on my Ipad (on the power button) sometimes doesn't register the first time either.

  2. the USFR DON'T need to scan all the time, they can just wake when YOU TOUCH THE SCREEN! It's basically the same for ALL kinds of fingerprint readers, so it's a non-issue.

  3. well, I concede that point

  4. cost comes down with scale. Also phones are ridiculously expensive nowadays, the cost of the sensor doesn't have a huge impact on that.

  5. fingerprint readers can scratch as easily as the screen. People are much more likely to make sure the screen does not get damaged than the finger print reader.

  6. traditional finger print readers struggle when wet as well. Also your phone is basically unusable anyways, when it's wet.

I mean it comes down to preference, but I like the scanner to be under the screen. All the things you listed really speak against finger print scanners in general, why not use Face ID?

[–] Yttra@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

For the first two, based on personal experience:

  1. Anecdotally, my old back-mounted LG fingerprint scanner has never been wrong (when dry of course), but my Pixel needs a re-scan 30% of the time.

  2. My phone requires a tap to wake the screen before the fingerprint reader will accept any input at all, unless I decide to burn battery and turn on AOD.

E: My current phone uses an optical sensor and, from what I understand, ultrasonics are infinitely better

[–] moon@lemmy.cafe 1 points 3 weeks ago

Nah I can't go back anymore. Feels like it makes much more sense being on the screen once you get a decent one.

[–] essell@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Woah. That 4th paragraph reads like it was written by the cocaine.

[–] Persen@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Deffinetly poco f5 under 300€ on aliexpress (at least it was), great performance, but terrible camera.