this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2024
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[–] Winter8593@lemmy.world 125 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Human productivity has exponentially increased since the beginning of the industrial revolution. We produce far more food and clothing than can be consumed and there are more than enough homes for people to live in. Generic medicine can often be produced for pennies.

There is no reason that we as a society cannot guarantee at least a basic standard of living consisting of sustenance, a safe place to rest and relax, treatment for common ailments, etc.

[–] Tja@programming.dev 30 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Still, there are farmers working to produce that food, using fuel, hiring mechanics, etc. Literally millions of people are involved in the research needed to make insulin so efficiently. Millions more are currently involved into making AIDS, Cancer and other diseases less fatal. And obviously homes don't grow on trees, from raw materials to specialized geologic knowledge, lots of people have to work very hard to build (and maintain) a home that is safe and pleasant.

That's being said, many countries do guarantee all of that. Capitalist countries, before lemmings jump out with bullshit.

In Germany even if you are unemployed you get your health insurance paid for, your rent covered - up to centra in surface area depending on the family size - utilities paid for, and a certain amount of cash for groceries and basic needs. The only condition is you have to be looking for a job and accept any reasonable offer - and make a good faith effort to keep it. Sometimes the government will ask you to work for them (usually unskilled laborike cleaning parks or something like that).

[–] LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (16 children)

I mean, you picked like one of the handful of socialist market economies that does that.

Canada nominally provides you with money in the form of social assistance if you're unemployed. It's not enough to pay for rent on a studio apartment. Let alone food.

The point is that being alive is not a voluntary contract. We don't ask to be born, and we are continually told by society that suicide is unacceptable. This is fine, I think that it's generally a good idea to promote being alive. But capitalism has actually decided that being alive is only half of it. You can't kill yourself, but you can't exist if you're not useful to the capitalist system either.

So basically if you're mentally ill, if you're disabled in any way, if like me you have medical conditions that make routine employment significantly harder than it is for people without these conditions - you're just screwed. Here's your 600$ a month social assistance check. Rent is 1000$ on the absolute most basic apartment in your area. Bare minimum groceries for a single person are close to 300 a month. You might be able to afford to live in a multi bedroom dwelling with strangers without central heating and lead plumbing that often doesn't work. At that point, your best bet to eat is at food banks, which are overcrowded and underfunded. Every single person, company, and political group across the entire country will demonize you as being essentially worthless and openly talk about how you should be forced to output labor that you are unable to output.

All this while like 10% of apartments sit empty, we throw out like 30% of the food we produce, and most labor in society has become about capitalist maintenance (office job, desk job, working for companies that essentially do nothing to feed or house people, that produce unnecessary goods in mass quantities for profit motives). Like capitalism has openly determined that we are worthless. We're worth less than garbage. They'd rather throw food away than feed us. They'd rather leave perfectly functional working apartments empty than give us homes. Capitalism has no use for people who cannot produce capital. This isn't new, and it is a fundamental aspect of the system. They call it merit. How much merit do you have? How much do you deserve to be alive and be happy?

And I work 40 hours a week and have for years. I take medications that make that possible, and I'm very lucky that medications exist that can essentially make me compatible with the capitalist labor system. But I lived that life before, and have many friends who still do. Barely surviving because society has decided that it's not worth it for them to live.

Not everyone can output labor. The point of society should be to ensure that all members of society can live healthy safe and happy lives. There is no reason this cannot be the case. It has just been decided by those with majority power that it shouldn't be the case. Suffering is legally mandated.

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[–] novibe@lemmy.ml 5 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Nothing you said changes the fact that only a small portion of humans need to work for the rest of humanity to survive. Or everyone could just work 10 hours a week and everything would still be fine. Problem is most people spend 40 hours a week doing bullshit number shifting jobs that just serve speculators to get richer. Nothing being produced. If we actually focused our productive forces into use-value instead of trade-value and completely removed financialization, we could all live lives of abundance while barely working at all. We are at that point, technologically and in the total productive forces of our species. It’s simply a matter of political will. But the ruling classes would never accept that.

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[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sounds nightmarish. I bet education doesn't even saddle you with unforgivable debt.

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[–] clot27@lemm.ee 18 points 8 months ago

We produce far more food and clothing than can be consumed

millions of people sarve to death despite this, what a shame this is for us as society

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You're forgetting the part where caring about people somehow needs to translate into power for someone. It's sad and fucked, but that's where we are.

Someone recently mused that if we provided a way for people to grift off of solving homelessness the problem would be gone. I don't recall the details, but I thought it seemed true.

[–] SolarMech 5 points 8 months ago

This is our only hope for climate change.

Things get better when solar out-competes coal and other fossil fuels. We're just missing the deployment rate right now I think to be able to just stop fossil fuel use from growing.

But we could have reduced consumption instead and done this much, much faster. The economy might have needed to shift to deal with this and a lot of old industries should have been shut down within only a few years, but it would have had a major impact. Instead we wait for new industries to grow alongside the old, while still growing the old!

Basically if billionaires can capture carbon, they will probably use it as a way to make governments pay to clean the air, which is essentially an ongoing tax from a private entity to a public one, which could conceivably go on forever (or until people try to nationalize it).

!ubi@leminal.space

I wish this community were more active.

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[–] green_square@yiffit.net 82 points 8 months ago (11 children)

Most things die unless they do stuff to not-die

[–] GlitterInfection@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Except for plants. They're lazy as fuck.

[–] AltheaHunter@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 8 months ago

When was the last time you fixed any carbon, you lazy, entitled heterotroph?

[–] Venator@lemmy.nz 16 points 8 months ago (2 children)

They still do stuff, just a bit slower.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

EIGHT HOURS A DAY I’M PHOTOSYNTHESIZING AND I HAVE TO COME HOME TO THIS?

[–] ApathyTree@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 8 months ago (2 children)

12 for those hardworking tropical chads

(Did I use that right? It was uncomfortable.)

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[–] GlitterInfection@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

I can relate.

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

I, too, want to just sit here and photosynthesis all day.

[–] green_square@yiffit.net 5 points 8 months ago

They do stuff, but they’re playing a city building game instead of an rpg

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[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 43 points 8 months ago (3 children)

We carve our living out of an uncaring and hostile universe.

Earning a living means doing your share of that.

[–] ilobmirt@pawb.social 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

That implies that we should all expect and deserve a status quo that is uncaring and hostile

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 8 points 8 months ago

It's not we shouldn't strive for a society that's caring. It's just that it isn't a given. We have to work to have that kind of society.

Entropy is a bitch. Nothing lasts forever without doing work to maintain it.

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[–] TBi@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yep. It’s amazing how many people think all this should be handed to them. If everyone thought that no one would have anything.

[–] Dabundis@lemmy.world 22 points 8 months ago (4 children)

There's a certain balance we've yet to strike. Not necessarily having a living handed to you, but being in a situation where if a rough couple weeks knocks you out on your ass, you can meet your basic needs while you get back up on your feet.

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[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 42 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Being alive wasn't my choice and I'm seeking compensation.

[–] green_square@yiffit.net 16 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Being born wasn’t your choice, being alive is 🤓

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[–] Encromion@sh.itjust.works 33 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It's more like "you haven't earned the right to have other people keep you alive". I daresay it's related to how, after 40ish years of working and raising a family and being a good citizen you can retire and have the bar for "staying alive" set a lot lower for most.

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 8 months ago (11 children)

This is about as on the nose as any take on the topic that I've seen. Holy shit, we're telling people they don't deserve to live. Some simple truths are profound when you say them out loud.

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[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 15 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I think the implication is meant to be getting the living standard by your own effort instead of through dependency on a supporting figure like a parent.

Does it make people who can't reach that standard for any reason not of their own failing feel shitty? Sometimes yeah, but it's not like it's to say that you're earning the right to keep living itself.

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[–] NewPerspective@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

There are people in my family that would hear this and agree 100%. They think Musk is changing the world too and they will vote for Trump a third time.

Musk is changing the world. Some changes are good. Other changes are... not so good.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 11 points 8 months ago

I mean, yeah, it's true. Death is the default. If you do nothing, you just die.

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