this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 152 points 9 months ago (9 children)

Why do they care so much? Why? I want to ask them to show me on the doll where the trans person hurt them.

[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 132 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It's not that they got hurt.

It's that fascism is an engine of hatred that burns minorities for power.

Think about bullies: they aren't attacking people who hurt them; they're attacking people to make themselves seem dominant.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

You have a good point, but I'd like to add that the group mentality is probably different from what a single bully would do or feel.

I think that this comes from these people being scared of not fitting in and from not having anything in common with the other people who don't fit it, so instead of uniting for a common goal, they can only find unity in being against something that they have in common not being. That's why they attack minorities of all kinds.

It also explains the hypocrisy. The individual isn't afraid of abortions, homosexuals or mexicans. Sometimes they need to accept those on an individual level, but they still go along with the anti-politics because it's not about themselves personally.

Facism isn't just based on simple hatred. It's mostly based on fear of not fitting in, because the individual is well aware of their own not fitting in.

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[–] Altofaltception@lemmy.world 39 points 9 months ago (5 children)

This is the part that I fail to comprehend either.

What is the worst thing that would happen if trans people have rights (including the right to just exist in society)?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 30 points 9 months ago (1 children)

When it was making rules against gender-affirming care for children, at least they could hide behind the (ludicrously false) "we're protecting the children!" argument.

They can't even do that here. There is just no justification for this beyond either "god doesn't want this to happen" or just basic cruelty.

[–] Ekybio@lemmy.world 33 points 9 months ago

The cruelty has always been the point.

[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 27 points 9 months ago (1 children)

A hate based ideology always needs an outgroup to discriminate against. It's really as simple as that.

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[–] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

This is how it was explained to me; I'll do the best I can to write it out in a way that makes sense.

You know how most left-leaning see MAGA as a cult of idiocy? Really Really dumb people easily motivated by propaganda, that if it weren't for trump and other republican bad actors, they would just otherwise be innocent idiots ready to be manipulated by someone else? There exists a subset of conservatives that believe idiocy and gullibility applies to both sides. Just like a simple farmer can get turned storm-the-capitol-terrorist by a few tweets and youtube videos, the theory is that an innocent dumb gay kid can be turned trans by a few tiktoks. They don't look at it like a rights issue; they don't believe that most trans people actually exist. They look at it like catering to a dangerous cult who manipulates their followers into self-mutilation and a terribly unhappy life.

The thing about making an argument in good faith, is that logic and reason generally always apply to produce the same conclusions if given the same set of facts. There are plenty of people out there perfectly content to make a bad faith argument for personal gain, and I'm not really talking about those people. The issue with trans rights is that it's very easy to make a good faith argument with only a minor dispute in facts that leads down a path of "treat the disease" rather than "give them rights" when solving in good faith for "protect the vulnerable".

Think about it this way, You probably wouldn't argue that law should cater towards the reality MAGA repubes believe the world to exist in, right?

[–] Altofaltception@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The difference between a MAGA cultist and a trans person, is that a MAGA cultist wants to see everyone other than themselves to suffer.

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[–] magnetosphere@kbin.social 31 points 9 months ago (2 children)

To them, it’s “icky” and “weird”. Therefore, it must be WRONG.

Sadly, I don’t think that’s an oversimplification. For them, it really is just that simple.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

Probably, but I think there's also a big element of "God hates you because my minister said so" or whatever.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

Conservatives have an over active "ick" sensitivity.

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-41186-006

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Because we’re the enemy. We’re different and bad and we make them uncomfortable so we must be why they’re unhappy and why their lives aren’t what they thought they should be

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[–] Humanius@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

It makes more sense if you look at this as them needing a scapegoat.

Most people don't (or until very recently didn't) really understand what being transgender actually is all about.
This makes it really easy to fearmonger the general population, by painting their "lifestyle" as everything that is wrong with society.

And if you want to solve this issue.. well clearly you have to vote for them, because the other guys don't see the inherent dangers of transgenderism, now do they?

This is not anything inherent to being transgender. The scapegoat before this were homosexuals.
However society has progressed to the point where most people understand what homosexuality is, and accept (or at the very least tolerate) homosexuals existing as a part of society. It turns out they weren't pedophilic devil worshipers after all..

That will happen with transgender people too. People will learn, acceptance will grow.
And when it does, these cretins move on to the next minority group.

Bonus round: Replace "transgender" with "Jew" in the things I mentioned above, and see what that reminds you of.

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[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 14 points 9 months ago

It's a wedge issue. They incite hatred against their preferred minority (trans people in this case) and then score points with their voters by passing laws to harm that minority.

[–] quindraco@lemm.ee 14 points 9 months ago

The real question here is why driver's licenses have a gender field; we can't sanely discuss questions about it (including why "they" care about this field so much) without answering this first.

The general answer seems to be that law enforcement can match it against records to determine if someone might be a subject of interest they're on the lookout for.

Since the new Florida policy makes this harder, by raising the odds that a license does not match current records... I have no answer for you.

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[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 65 points 9 months ago (13 children)

This doesn't even make sense from an administrative standpoint. The purpose of government identification is identification. If I can't update my driver's license to make me easier to identify then the entire purpose of having a gender on the ID card is moot

[–] anton@lemmy.blahaj.zone 60 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

It gives cops an excuse to arrest (and beat up) trans people on charges of false ID.
Edit: spelling

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 32 points 9 months ago

Oh absolutely, it's just meant to out us to every cop that sees our ID so they can decide to ruin our day. They won't actually admit that, though.

[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

This is a weak justification, but here is a strawman:

If a person is involved in a firey buscrash, it is helpful to the coroner to know what biological sex someone was born as to help with identification (different bone structures etc).

To tear that strawman down again, there is absolutely no reason that the drivers licence couldnt show their gender, and the authority could also track their sex in their system.

Of course, this is Florida, the answer is obvious, they are doing it to fuck over trans people....

I understand that not being able to change forms of ID can cause problems for trans people, but if I were trans, I would be terrified to out myself to the state of Florida. I feel for my brothers and sisters affected by this bullshit.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (3 children)

That justification gets even weaker when there's no fire in the lethal crash. They're not looking at burned skeletons, they're just looking at corpses.

Also! Skeletal differences are actually minimal in people who transitioned at a young enough age, so that wouldn't even be helpful in their case.

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[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 10 points 9 months ago (3 children)

If a person is involved in a firey buscrash, it is helpful to the coroner to know what biological sex someone was born as to help with identification (different bone structures etc).

Yeah... no. The bone structures aren't that different. It's more likely that anthropologist can't identify the sex by bones alone than they can. I also can't think of a different reason for it, but there really doesn't need to be a reason for them to just be bigots.

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 55 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Wouldn't this come into conflict with REAL ID? Florida is currently REAL ID compliant.

Federal docs like your passport are used in verifying your REAL ID, and generally, the names need to match.

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[–] tygerprints@kbin.social 50 points 9 months ago (9 children)

In our small-brained baboon-butt red state of Utah, the "esteemed" legislatures just passed a bill making it illegal for trans people to use public bathrooms. I guess that means trans people can shit wherever they want to in public.

This kind of nutjob small brained bigotry is ruining our country and embarrasssing us gloablly. Other countries see these anti-human laws and realize we're crumbling and don't really stand behind our American "values" or our consitution.

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 16 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

This kind of nutjob small brained bigotry is ruining our country and embarrasssing us gloablly. Other countries see these anti-human laws and realize we're crumbling and don't really stand behind our American "values" or our consitution.

You would hope this is the case but in reality the right-wing nutjobs everywhere just copy/paste US culture war idiocy, usually even without making the slithest necessary adaption to make them fit.

[–] CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There was a documentary on LGBT rights in I think Nigeria and they were showing an interview of the religious leader talking about why being gay was an abomination etc etc. along with a guy who was for those rights.

The religious leader, in a very thick African accent says, "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."

One of the points that the film was making was how conservative think tanks actually try to push their agenda outside of the US. Because you sure as hell know that religious leader didn't come up with that argument on their own.

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[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Religion, especially in the United States, embarrasses us all.

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 43 points 9 months ago

Another proud moment for Christianity

[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 42 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I don't think the IDs need sex on them. A name, a picture, a number, birthday, height and what sort of vehicles you are licensed to operate.

If it's that divisive, remove the field. I do not have a women's driving permit, I can drive the same things my husband can, it's not used for anything related to its function. A picture gives more information on identity, then if someone transitioned they could go get a new one and it would identify them correctly.

[–] Hootz@lemmy.ca 15 points 9 months ago

Like if my banking doesn't require a gender to make a transaction why should my driver's license.

[–] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Next up: Florida creates Women's Driving Permit, only pink vehicles and engines below 120cc. Men on the other hand need a vehicle greater than 150cc with a hood high enough to no longer need to see children, as that is women's business.

[–] JustARaccoon@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't have to just be gender, trans people often change their name too as part of the transition. Also sex =/= gender

[–] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The article specifically mentions changing the gender and nothing about name. Lots of people get name changes for various reasons, but it’s a whole process.

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[–] LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 39 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

So how is this law enforceable? Isn't the gender marker change through the state itself? I obviously assume they're going to stop providing the changes, but what about people who have already had it changed? Or is this meant to punish trans people from other states traveling to Florida?

Inevitably a cisgender woman who does not meet enforced standards of femininity will get arrested for this. Or trans men who have not changed their gender marker. Violence against queer people and cis women is the intention.

[–] deania@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

I can absolutely see someone with androgen insensitivity syndrome (female with XY chromosomes) getting thrown in jail for this.

[–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I think the most pertinent question these days is why is sex listed on a drivers licence anyway? If it's referring to phenotype why does anyone I give my ID to need to know what genitals are in my smallclothes? If it's referring to chromasomal makeup why the hell is that relevant to the guy at the liquor store?

If it refers to gender then the consideration becomes that you can't always intuit gender from presentation so that's hardly good at creating any benefit for visual identification.

ID is an issue in general for non-binary people. Here in Canada your passport and licence have to match but getting an X gender marker on your passport means your documents have a solid opportunity to subject you to travel discrimination and whether or not that ID will even be accepted abroad becomes a serious and sometimes peicemeal question.

The question of "should we allow changes of sex on identifying documents" is kind of missing the point. We should be talking total abolition of registration of sex on drivers licences.

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[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

Conservatives can all go fuck themselves.

[–] Egerbur@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

WTF?!

Ok, this is obvious, but this is just messed up.

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