this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2023
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Joe Biden worries that the “extreme” US supreme court, dominated by rightwing justices, cannot be relied upon to uphold the rule of law.

“I worry,” the president told ProPublica in interview published on Sunday. “Because I know that if the other team, the Maga Republicans, win, they don’t want to uphold the rule of law.”

“Maga” is shorthand for “Make America great again”, Donald Trump’s campaign slogan. Trump faces 91 criminal charges and assorted civil threats but nonetheless dominates Republican polling for the nomination to face Biden in a presidential rematch next year.

In four years in the White House, Trump nominated and saw installed three conservative justices, tilting the court 6-3 to the right. That court has delivered significant victories for conservatives, including the removal of the right to abortion and major rulings on gun control, affirmative action and other issues.

The new court term, which starts on Tuesday, could see further such rulings on matters including government environmental and financial regulation.

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[–] DandomRude@lemmy.world 247 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (46 children)

A system that appoints supreme constitutional judges for life and without even halfway serious democratic checks and balances seems to me the perfect recipe for disaster and corruption. But hey, I'm from Europe, so what do I know... ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 72 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Yes but you fail to consider that some guys wrote on a paper like 250 years ago and we’ve decided that everything needs to be viewed through the lens of either “does this agree with an incredibly pedantic and stilted reading of this document” or “what would those historical dudes think about this” - whichever happens to be more politically expedient for you at the moment, but the second one tends to give you more flexibility.

[–] CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)

everything needs to be viewed through the lens of either “does this agree with an incredibly pedantic and stilted reading of this document” or “what would those historical dudes think about this”

To be fair, they did expect us to modify the constitution from generation to generation.

Ultimately the failure is ours.

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[–] PreviouslyAmused@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

One of the more interesting things I saw (on this topic) was a historian stating that George Washington (and his contemporaries) would have been able to relate the world of Julius Cesar more than they would our modern world.

I think about that A LOT whenever I hear some idiot spout nonsense about the "vision and ideals" of the founding fathers

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[–] DandomRude@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Yup, I see. A bit like with the Bible and other holy books then. Even here in Europe, there are many who see the wording of those as the ultimate truth. No need to adjust anything, they say. It's all good. It's god's will or whatever - if it helps their agenda, that is. Jesus, that must be frustrating.

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[–] Gestrid@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

For better or worse, it's next to impossible to successfully modify the Constitution without significant support. It has to be ratified by about 38 States (3/4 of the State legislatures or 3/4 of the conventions called in each State). That's after either 2/3 of both Houses of Congress (2/3 of the House of Representatives and 2/3 of the Senate) propose an amendment or 2/3 of the State legislatures request one via a convention.

In a way, it's a good thing since it keeps the Constitution from being able to be changed on a whim, and it mostly keeps it from being affected by the political tug-of-war that happens every few years in the US.

It's also a bad thing, though, as it makes it very difficult to adapt to certain situations that wouldn't have happened 200+ years ago.

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[–] Alteon@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hey. You can't just use common sense when it comes to our Judicial System. That would be too logical. What next? You gonna ask that our Supreme Court Justices have Ethics Rules!?

What is this world coming to?

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[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago

It's more a symptom of the FPTP voting system

Europe has viable parties outside the two most popular in any given election cycle, so partisan loyalty is less of a threat to the application of removal proceedings or other punitive measures.

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[–] CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 71 points 1 year ago (21 children)

Joe Biden worries that the “extreme” US supreme court, dominated by rightwing justices, cannot be relied upon to uphold the rule of law.

If he really worries about that, and is not just scaring people to vote for him, then he has a responsibility to enlarge the court.

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I'd argue this should have been the immediate response to Mitch McConnell blocking nominees half a term away from an election, but if the court can't uphold the rule of law, it should be fixed (and expansion seems like the obvious solution) or replaced.

The procedural question on this one is whether he could shrink the court to boot say... Thomas, then expand it again to replace him with someone less obviously corrupt. Republicans fail to confirm a replacement? We'll shrink the court a little more. Obviously, this won't happen, but I'm interested to know if it's possible.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Shrinking it (through established legal channels) is impeachment and removal which has a high bar. Enlarging it is just passing a law, which is only hard because the senate has a policy (not a law) to effectively not pass laws without supermajorities. The latter could be done with a simple majority of politicians with a spine.

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[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (9 children)

How?

Are you under the assumption Joe Biden is some sort of wizard?

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago (10 children)

I am concerned about the obvious concerning things as well. Y'all should make me your leader.

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[–] DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Then maybe he should have packed the court with some good judges

[–] tacosplease@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Would have had to nuke the filibuster to make it where they could pack the court. That required yes votes from all Democratic senators (only because not a single fucking Republican would vote for it), and Manchin and Sinema refused to do it.

Nothing Biden could have done. We needed more Democrats in Senate seats. That's the game though. Republicans do their best to make us feel like voting doesn't matter, then we don't turn up - making it easier for Republicans to say the government doesn't work.

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[–] stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

It’s just that easy ™️

[–] crawley@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (11 children)

I don't think he's exactly even capable of doing so. SCOTUS judges have to retire or die, and then vacant seats have to get confirmed by the Senate, and no self-respecting Republican Supreme Court justice would die while in office. Expanding the number of justices is also extremely unlikely to happen, and also, relevantly, not really in Joe's hands.

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago

At least they're finally starting to get a clue that "They go low, we go high" is bullshit

[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago

Damn, did he just now notice this?

[–] HamsterRage@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

To me, as a non-American, the most baffling thing is that everyone in the States just assumes, and accepts, that these appointed justices are going to rule according to some political bias.

That's not the way it works in the rest of the free world. Judges are, by definition, trusted to be impartial interpreters of the law/constitution. That's their role.

I live in Canada, and I'm vaguely familiar with some of the names of our Supreme Court justices, but I certainly don't know their political leanings, nor do I care. Nor does any Canadian I know. That's the way it's supposed to be.

So as far as I can see, the problem isn't that SCOTUS is stacked with Republicans, nor that it can be. The problem is that everyone seems to assume that this is the way it should be.

[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago (33 children)

No, we don't. Along with Citizens United, EVERY American with a brain and open eyes is aware these are the absolute most important problems, and they lead to endgame checkmate authoritarianism.

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[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.one 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

First of all, the Overton Window in America is skewed heavily right. So our centrist Democratic leaders are center right, our Republicans are what most countries would call regressive, extremist, authoritarian right wing, or even fascists.

See, the problem is rightwing extremism has been on a campaign since the civil rights era to take control of the country and undo the progress made since the 1960s.

They installed right wing media. They cut education and tampered with curricula. They gerrymandered. They instituted voter suppression. Their strategy culminated in the Federalist Society influencing the selection of Gorsuch and installation of right wing judges during the Trump administration.

The thing you have to know if you ever want to try and stop extremist, authoritarian, right wing regressives is that they do not hold the same ideals and morals as you and I. They do not play from the same playbook or follow the same rulebook.

They believe that "might makes right," that any ends justify the means, that rules are enacted to protect them and their in group and punish their selected out group. They believe in many cases that their cause is justified by God.

And so any justice who adheres to such zealous principles will see no issue with finding a way to rule in the favor of their side. They may even go so far as to rule with weak or minimal justification. They will be a lot less likely to rule in an unbiased fashion.

My current opinion is that, so far, we have only seen rulings that fall into the "finding a way" category.

I think these justices will incrementally push the envelope on what they can get away with over the upcoming decades.

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