this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
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Admittedly, I don't know much about Brexit, but from what I have been exposed to, it seems like a decisively economical and political impairment that made travel and business with the rest of Europe more difficult and costly. Since it is so highly criticized as a terrible move, why doesn't the UK just rejoin the EU?

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[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 199 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Many good answers in this thread (and some stupid ones) but there are a few critical issues that the current British government will not accept.

First, currency. GB does not want to give up control over the pound, and their previous agreement did not force them to adopt the Euro. There are several other EU countries that have not yet adopted the Euro, but all except Denmark are obligated to switch over once certain criteria are met. GB might be able to negotiate that privilege again, but the EU is in a stronger bargaining position now.

Second, immigration. For as much as their country is suffering from their own strict immigration policies, the conservative government is still making political hay out of xenophobia and bigotry. Reopening the borders would be a tacit admission that their rhetoric was bullshit.

Third, taxes. Joining the EU means contributing to the EU, and while their nation may save money overall due to improved trade relations, the conservative government has made the cost of admission another talking point.

Basically, the current government would have to renegotiate readmittance to the EU, and they would get a worse deal than they had before. Doing so would make it obvious that leaving was a mistake, and their government could only be consisered an objective failure. So they won't do it, even if it is the best option available.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why didn't Denmark have to switch to the Euro? I can see how back in the 70s the UK had enough bargaining power to keep the Pound, but Denmark?

[–] jochem@lemmy.ml 28 points 1 year ago (20 children)

Every country that joined the EU after the 1992 Maastricht treaty has to adopt the euro. Denmark signed that treaty, UK as well, but if they rejoin, they'd more than likely be treated as a new member.

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[–] bstix@feddit.dk 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It was in regards to the Maastricht Treaty in 1992, which was sort of the founding treaty of EU. In order to complete the transformation from European Communities to a European Union, all involved countries had to sign the treaty.

Some of the countries just couldn't legally give off this amount of sovereignty without a domestic election. Denmark being one of them. So, even if it's a small country, it had the same power as any other country to obstruct the founding of the entire union.

So when the election turned out a narrow "no", it was a bit of wrench in the wheel. Denmark then negotiated having a few opt outs before they were able hold a new election which then gave a "yes".

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[–] Lemmylaugh@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So Britain is in a sunk cost fallacy situation? If so who exactly in power is preventing us to rejoin?

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[–] drekly@lemmy.world 131 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The ones who fucked our country don't want to admit they were wrong.

The party that's been in charge of our country has been dismantling and selling everything worthwhile for over a decade, and the only viable alternative party seems to be running on "we don't want to change anything major, but at least we're not those guys" because they're too scared to say anything after their last leader got torn apart constantly by the right-wing press.

I'm honestly worried about what we've become and how everything is just getting worse here. Nobody seems to have any hope for the future anymore, there are no positive things to look forward to, just a constant spiral of rising costs and declining health and public services.

[–] leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone 55 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The UK political cycle:

  1. Tories elected because they made people think Labour were bad with money
  2. Tories stay in power for a couple of decades
  3. Rich people get richer, public services get shitter, prices for everyone else get higher. They coast along on a tide of right-wing populism for awhile
  4. Eventually people catch on, Tories get voted out
  5. Labour need to spend a fortune getting things back on track. Might get two terms.
  6. Go to 1.
[–] clockwork_octopus@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is also the Canadian political cycle, it seems.

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[–] andyburke@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The sad truth is it will need to get much worse until conservatives will admit there is a problem and let progressives solve it.

It has always been this way. You either live in a progressive, upwardly moving state with improving quality of life or you get stuck in a conservative, stagnant or downward trending place where people are more concerned with "others" than they are with doing anything productive as a society. As a species, we seem to slowly wobble back and forth between these extremes. It's maddening.

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[–] Ekybio@lemmy.world 80 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There are a lot of reasons, but I think it boils down to the people in charge do not want the embarrassement of crawling back to the EU.

It would be total ego destruction and that is simply untennable. This is what happens when the right gets enough power to make a change and then has to experience consequences.

Something something leopards and faces.

[–] kevincox@lemmy.ml 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not only that but the EU doesn't want to make it seem like people can come and go as they please. So they will make serious demands for rejoining.

[–] deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly. UK will be adopting the Euro next time.

I forget what other significant concessions there were.

[–] bomberesque1@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Schengen membership and no rebate are the 2 big ones aside from the euro iirc

If the EU are feeling particularly salty they might add the metric system but that's not a current condition of membership afaik

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[–] weeeeum@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah exactly, not to mention that the EU has called the UK "a trouble maker" in regards to the UK rejoining.

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

This is the big one, admitting it was a mistake.

[–] DestroyerOfWorlds@sh.itjust.works 74 points 1 year ago (3 children)

it's like an unstable ex-girlfriend trying to get back together. and now she's down on her luck with even less to offer.

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[–] Bjaldr@discuss.tchncs.de 65 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Britain had a highly favourable agreement with the EU that it negotiated decades ago. If it wanted to rejoin, it would do so without those privileges.

[–] Atemu@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago

they can £ sand

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[–] bravesirrbn@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Screw England, let's just let Scotland and Wales join without them

[–] GiveOver@feddit.uk 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 52 points 1 year ago

It would be smart, but their pride forbids it. Besides, when re-joining, they would start off like any other member, not as privileged as they were before thanks to Thatchers blackmailing. And they would have to ditch the pound in favor of the Euro, which would be the most painful thing.

But on the long run, they will have to come back. It is not a question of "if" but just "when" if they want to survive, and the longer they take, the more painful it will be.

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago

Sure. There's an application process; supposedly they can apply. It will take years, with a lot of conditions, and none of the previous exemption they had.

[–] theKalash@feddit.ch 40 points 1 year ago
[–] bouh@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago

Why would the EU accept that? GB needs to make its mind about that. It had so many specific benefits in the EU, and it still left because an idiot gambled the decision in a referendum.

The brexit could have meant the end of the EU. It's not something you can come and go on a whim. So GB needs to pay for its stupid decision, because the stability of the EU depends on it, no country should ever get the idea that leaving the EU is inconsequential.

[–] Dasnap@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (3 children)

My question is if the EU would even want the country back. Would you want to deal with a country that flip-flops that hard?

[–] Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago

IMO the flip-flop would basically kill any bargaining capacity from the UK. Before it was * but what if we leave, we're stronger together and you have more to loose by letting us leave than by giving us a small concession* now it'll be Why do you want any special concession ? You're a new member like any other and have to abide by the same rules

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[–] Vaggumon@lemm.ee 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They made their decision to leave, now they have to deal with the consequences of that decision.

[–] havocpants@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

Try to remember that almost half of us did not vote to leave in the first place and knew it was a mistake. The Brexit vote was won on the tiniest of margins mainly due to a criminal misinformation campaign.

There was no mandate in that vote for the UK leaving the single market - something that those liars campaigning for Brexit said that we would never do. I firmly believe that all of the Brexit campaigners should be rotting in prison for the incalculable damage they did to our nation. Many people were tricked into voting against their best interests because they were told that leaving the EU would mean more money for the NHS, or it would protect their daughters from all the Turkish rapists joining the EU next week, or all the other total fucking nonsense the criminal liars told them through Facebook.

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[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Assuming the UK could get itself together and find the political willpower to do so...it still won't be easy. The EU has to agree to it, and it would require all members of the EU approving them rejoining.

As I recall, the EU warned them that if they left it would be very challenging for them to rejoin. The idea was to discourage them from leaving the EU in the first place. But they did. And now they have to live with the consequences.

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[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 33 points 1 year ago

It's not an on-off relationship.

[–] TheProtagonist@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It’s like thinking about marrying your ex-wife again, just after you went through an awful divorce, that took years to get accomplished, which you had insisted in. It would make you look somewhat stupid and the question is whether your ex-wife would let you move back in to your former house (i.e. the EU). Who knows…

You wanted it, you got it, now live with it!

[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sure, but in this analogy, your ex wife was great partner that was good for you and you only broke up because you thought you could do better. Only after your divorce, you realize you aren't actually doing better on your own and want your ex wife back, but are too afraid to admit it. And also your ex wife might not want you back anymore (if she does, she's gonna ask you to really prove you're committed).

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[–] LanternEverywhere@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago

I'm not an expert in this topic at all, but there's a few reasons i can see. One major reason is that you'd have to get a big portion of the country to admit that they were totally wrong and got badly scammed, which people (especially that particular portion of people) won't allow themselves to admit.

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If I'm not mistaken, the pro-Brexit party (they call them Torys) has been in charge. If they want to move in a different direction, they need to vote different people in, which has not been happening very quickly.

Politics is complicated, basically.

[–] li10@feddit.uk 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Worth noting that the true pro-Brexit party was UKIP, but the conservatives wanted their voters so adopted a pro brexit stance.

I don’t think most Tory’s really wanted it to happen (bad for business), David Cameron thought he could get an easy win by holding a referendum and nipping the Brexit talk in the bud, but bit off more than he could chew.

Brexit remained popular with voters for a while, and conservatives have leaned into it being the right decision and demonising immigrants since because they’re fucking up everything else.

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[–] redders@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's really weird, as the whole EU deal was Margaret Thatcher's legacy, and her own party threw it away!!!

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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 23 points 1 year ago

It won't happen as long as the Conservatives are in power. They've been pushing the Brexit is great agenda for ages and have finally admitted that maybe it's not brilliant, but it's still pretty great mind you.

There is probably going to be an election in January or February of 2024, because of the utterly stupid way that UK politics works there may not be an election, who knows, but if there is an election and ~~if~~ when the conservatives lose and labour win it might be under cards but it's probably going to take years if it does happen.

[–] brey1013@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago
[–] golli@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

Others have already mentioned some of the many reasons why.

But i would like to add that even if they'd rejoin, they could not do so with the same conditions that they had before. Since they joined the predecessors of the EU so early, they had a number of privileges that a new joining member nowadays would not be granted. So from that side "going back to how things were before" wouldn't be possible to begin with.

[–] Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Another factor is that the EU doesn't necesarily want to take the UK back.

The Brexit, and other anti-EU movement in Europe do not come out of nowhere, there is a lot of issue with how the EU works, and some fundamental disagreement between members (and/or political parties within member states) on how should the Europe evolve (Just a big free-trade area, or a continent sized nation with a real political power and geopolitical weight), this is the context behind Macron talking about a Multi speed Europe

A big question is whether we should take new members right now (including Ukraine/Turkey/UK) or deal on the institutional issue and agree in which direction we want to move together rather than taking more people

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[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago

I always figured it wouldn't be the UK rejoining the EU if that ever happened. But thats putting the likelihood of there no longer being a UK over their re-entry into the EU.

Also they never adopted the Euro so they always had one foot out anyway.

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