this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025
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The narrative that OpenAI, Microsoft, and freshly minted White House “AI czar” David Sacks are now pushing to explain why DeepSeek was able to create a large language model that outpaces OpenAI’s while spending orders of magnitude less money and using older chips is that DeepSeek used OpenAI’s data unfairly and without compensation. Sound familiar?

Both Bloomberg and the Financial Times are reporting that Microsoft and OpenAI have been probing whether DeepSeek improperly trained the R1 model that is taking the AI world by storm on the outputs of OpenAI models.

It is, as many have already pointed out, incredibly ironic that OpenAI, a company that has been obtaining large amounts of data from all of humankind largely in an “unauthorized manner,” and, in some cases, in violation of the terms of service of those from whom they have been taking from, is now complaining about the very practices by which it has built its company.

OpenAI is currently being sued by the New York Times for training on its articles, and its argument is that this is perfectly fine under copyright law fair use protections.

“Training AI models using publicly available internet materials is fair use, as supported by long-standing and widely accepted precedents. We view this principle as fair to creators, necessary for innovators, and critical for US competitiveness,” OpenAI wrote in a blog post. In its motion to dismiss in court, OpenAI wrote “it has long been clear that the non-consumptive use of copyrighted material (like large language model training) is protected by fair use.”

OpenAI argues that it is legal for the company to train on whatever it wants for whatever reason it wants, then it stands to reason that it doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on when competitors use common strategies used in the world of machine learning to make their own models.

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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago

The new innovate and the old litigate.

[–] PrivacyDingus@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago
[–] Rooty@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I love how die hard free market defenders turn into fuming protectionists the second their hegemony is threatened.

[–] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

Tale as old as capitalism.

[–] whostosay@lemmy.world 90 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] whostosay@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] quokka1@mastodon.au 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

@whostosay I know they're being touted as having done very much with very little, but this kind of thing should have been part of the little.

[–] whostosay@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

I'm not understanding your reply, do you mind rephrasing?

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago

Intellectual property theft for me but not for thee!

[–] Critical_Thinker@lemm.ee 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's a shame that you can't copyright the output of AI, isn't it?

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Trump executive order on the copyrightability of AI output in 3...

[–] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 1 day ago

so? it won't have any effect on china, because last i checked, us laws apply only in the us

[–] nightwatch_admin@feddit.nl 249 points 1 day ago (20 children)

It is effing hilarious. First, OpenAI & friends steal creative works to “train” their LLMs. Then they are insanely hyped for what amounts to glorified statistics, get “valued” at insane amounts while burning money faster than a Californian forest fire. Then, a competitor appears that has the same evil energy but slightly better statistics.. bam. A trillion of “value” just evaporates as if it never existed.
And then suddenly people are complaining that DeepSuck is “not privacy friendly” and stealing from OpenAI. Hahaha. Fuck this timeline.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 75 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It never did exist. This is the problem with the stock market.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 38 points 1 day ago (19 children)

That's why "value" is in quotes. It's not that it didn't exist, is just that it's purely speculative.

Hell Nvidia's stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

Stock investing is just gambling on whatever is public opinion, which is notoriously difficult because people are largely dumb and irrational.

[–] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hell Nvidia's stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

It's the same hardware, the problem for them is that deepseek found a way to train their AI for much cheaper using a lot less than the hundreds of thousands of GPUs from Nvidia that openai, meta, xAi, anthropic etc. uses

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[–] Xanthobilly@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

You know what else isn’t privacy friendly? Like all of social media.

[–] teft@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I hear tulip bulbs are a good investment...

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[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 19 points 1 day ago

Capitalism basics, competition of exploitation

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[–] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 187 points 1 day ago
[–] maplebar@lemmy.world 78 points 1 day ago (3 children)

If these guys thought they could out-bootleg the fucking Chinese then I have an unlicensed t-shirt of Nicky Mouse with their name on it.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The thing is chinese did not just bootleg... they took what was out there and made it better.

Their shit is now likely objectively "better" (TBD tho we need sometime)... American parasites in shambles asking Daddy sam to intervene after they already block nvidia GPUs and shit.

Still got cucked and now crying about it to the world. Pathetic.

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[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 65 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

DeepSeek’s specific trained model is immaterial—they could take it down tomorrow and never provide access again, and the damage to OpenAI’s business would already be done.

DeepSeek’s model is just a proof-of-concept—the point is that any organization with a few million dollars and some (hopefully less-problematical) training data can now make their own model competitive with OpenAI’s.

[–] Zetta@mander.xyz 26 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Deepseek can't take down the model, it's already been published and is mostly open source. Open source llms are the way, fuck closedAI

[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Right—by “take it down” I just meant take down online access to their own running instance of it.

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[–] marcyiu@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 1 day ago

the Chinese realised OpenAI forgot to open source their model and methodology so they just open sourced it for them 😂

[–] owenfromcanada@lemmy.world 91 points 1 day ago (4 children)
[–] MysticKetchup@lemmy.world 38 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I feel like I didn't appreciate this movie enough when I first watched it but it only gets better as I get older

[–] ouRKaoS@lemmy.today 13 points 1 day ago

"Now" is always a good time to rewatch it & get more out of it!

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (3 children)

It's a true comedy that still holds up. I honestly thought for years that Mel Brooks had something to do with it, but he didn't. It's so well crafted that there are many layers to it that you can't even grasp when watching as a child. Seeing it as an adult just open your eyes to how amazingly well done it was.

I could do without the whole Billy Crystalizing of large portions of it though.

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[–] BertramDitore@lemm.ee 63 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Corporate media take note. This is how you do reality-based reporting. None of the both-sides bullshit trying to justify or make excuses, just laughing in the face of absurd hypocrisy. This is a well-respected journalist confronting a truth we can all plainly see. See? The truth doesn’t need to be boring or bland or “balanced” by disingenuous attempts to see the other side.

I will explain what this means in a moment, but first: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha. It is, as many have already pointed out, incredibly ironic that OpenAI, a company that has been obtaining large amounts of data from all of humankind largely in an “unauthorized manner,” and, in some cases, in violation of the terms of service of those from whom they have been taking from, is now complaining about the very practices by which it has built its company.

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[–] Mangoholic@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 day ago

Yes get f*ed you creedy bastards.

[–] humble_pete_digger@lemm.ee 28 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Thank you China.
No for real - it's either EU or frigging china that helps us with these oligarch overlords

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[–] TipRing@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)
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[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

Regardless of how OpenAI procured their data, I'm absolutely shocked that a company from China would obtain data unauthorized from a company in another country.

[–] Sho@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

The battle of the plagiarism machines has begun

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