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Did california just legalize slavery and servitude? (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 week ago by nexusband@lemmy.world to c/politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world

18 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I was just scrolling through some of the referendums...what exactly is going on here?

top 18 comments

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[–] antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 days ago

Less than 2/3 of the vote counted. Since 1982, CalPIA “employs” prisoners for $1/hr to make office furniture and supplies, stamp license plates, and fight wildfires, among other labor. Some have died. It’s slavery. If the measure passes, these activities will cost the state a lot more money. And to add to it, Prop 36 looks like we will be sending more prisoners in for non-violent crimes.

No problem just make sure they don’t send any good white boys to prison. /s

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 62 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

slavery,. or forced labor, is still legal in most US prisons, but they don't call it slavery.

in the instance, California tried to end slavery/forced labor used as a punishment in their prisons, which is the norm in the US, but failed.

[+] Telodzrum@lemmy.world -9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

We don’t call it slavery because it’s not. Slavery is private ownership of a person. Forced labor is a form of carceral punishment meted out by society.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

nope.

that is part of one narrow definition of specifically chattel slavery.

here's another definition of slavery:

"compelled labor for the profit of another."

compelled labor(as practiced in US prisons) for the profit of another(like inmates providing service and revenue for private prisons).

here's a third:

"a situation or practice in which people are coerced to work under conditions that are exploitative"

by two of the three definitions, inmates forced or exploited to work are slaves.

one is probably enough.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery

[–] Telodzrum@lemmy.world -3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's the explicit definition barred under the 13th Amendment. So, it's the appropriate one to use.

Your other definition similarly doesn't work with your argument. It's not "for the profit of another" it's as punishment for a criminal act and even if the primary goal was profit, it's not "for another" it's being employed in the service of society.

The final definition also fall short. It's not exploitative, it's not coercion. It's forced and delivered by the established system of justice.

Here's the thing, you don't have to like labor as a criminal punishment. But, your distaste for the practice doesn't make it slavery.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

nope, you all kindsa wrong again:

compelled forced labor, especially for the profit of another, is the definition of slavery, and:

inmates are used to produce exports for the prison industry that prisons collect billions of dollars from in revenue.

that labor is often not punitive.

that is compelled labor for the profit of another.

it is exploitative because they are paid pennies on the dollar or not at all, while being charged to stay in prison and charged for the services they received.

most inmates leave jail at a net loss since US prisons, even though they're making money off the prisoners, are pay for stay.

[–] nexusband@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Thanks for the clarification.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 week ago

for sure

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 28 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The last part is probably what this is mainly about. Using it as a punishment = Using prisoners as free workers. This has already been happening everywhere in the US and there is a huge financial interest in allowing these private prisons to continue operating.

[–] pbbananaman@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

AB32 banned private prisons in California. The slavery referred to by this proposition is typically work along the lines of: cook food in the kitchen, do the laundry, clean the bathrooms. In prison you can be compelled to do these things without pay and punished if you don’t (slavery).

I do find it interesting that people tend to be wholeheartedly in support of the Japanese school system that makes the children do all those things above. Maybe it’s just unclear how the slavery is used in California prisons?

[–] nexusband@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Interesting. Thanks!

[–] Thunderwolf@lemmy.world 27 points 1 week ago

13th Amendment:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, -except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted-, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Basically says: "slavery is illegal unless it is used as a punishment for a crime".

California was voting to override the 13th Amendment it seems

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 week ago

Slavery is legal in the form of prison labor

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Refusing to outlaw prison labor. The measure is disingenuously named.

[–] BossDj@lemm.ee 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

This seems to have been the problem, according to advocates. They're saying that people weren't really clear on what the measure would accomplish.

I think a solid piece of evidence is the vote count. The total vote count appears around 300k less than all of the other measures, meaning people just skipped over that one which is never a good sign.

Ps. I just did spitball math at 6am, I didn't read that anywhere so totally my (could be wrong) observation

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Last I saw, CA still had a bunch of votes to be counted though...

56% reporting.

No - 54.7% - 5,394,838
Yes - 45.3% - 4,474,816

Soooo... 9,869,654 votes counted and that's 56%, so 100% is around 17,624,382 votes total, meaning 7,754,728 still uncounted.

[–] BossDj@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Each proposition should have a proportional number of votes regardless of percent tallied, though. I guess I could have said "currently"

[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Well, looks like it's a plantation for a service economy - just rule the labor and have their output be devoid of any actual product so that they never feel a sense of accomplishment. Gotta keep em hopeless to keep them working for me instead of for themselves.