"I'll vote to install a fascist government that will give Israel a blank check to destroy the Palestinians. That'll show Harris!"
this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2024
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Why does Trump always get a pass?
It's like everyone against him has to be an utter saint, and one wrong move? Welp, voting for Trump, I guess.
And yes, strategically... this makes no sense for anyone who cares about what's happening in Israel.
It's a fake argument. They were always voting for Trump. I have a relative that said Biden was too old... She's still voting for Trump. These people are wrong in the head.
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(19 replies)
But I was told no one would ever consider letting Trump win and that it was just Very Concerned People(tm) voicing their concerns, not an attempt to throw the election to literal fascists???
In her view, it’s not her personal responsibility to stop Trump; it’s Harris’s and the Democrats’. And if Trump has another go at the presidency, then it’s only the Democrats to blame, not the voters who defected. Choosing to sit out or vote third party is a way to remind the major parties that they aren’t doing enough.
God I love it when people treat voting as a spiritual responsibility and not a matter of being entrusted with political power, really makes me feel great about the state of civic education in this fucking country.
And if Trump has another go at the presidency, then it’s only the Democrats to blame, not the voters who defected.
This is honestly the worst part of this whole thing, because if it happens, they won't even have a come to Jesus "Wow, maybe I shouldn't have done that" moment that might influence their actions in the future - instead it will just galvanize them against the party that they are ideologically closest to.
It would be like if LGBT folk in 2000 said Gore wasn't LGBT-friendly enough, so they were fine with Bush winning.
Do they have legitimate complaints? Yes. Does that justify ushering in someone who will be worse for literally everyone? Fuck no.
I've literally seen people make that argument against Kamala. Apparently she's not LGBTQ friendly enough 🙄
While also conveniently ignoring that Republicans are the ones blocking any progress.
Those people are either idiots, or arguing in bad faith. Too many disinformation agents or accelerationists on Lemmy.
It is infuriating.
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(13 replies)
Here's my simple take. Vote Harris, then hold a massive pro Palestinian demonstration on inauguration day. Harris might be swayed, trump would just claim the demonstration was to celebrate him.
Those protesting will be called anti semites and ignored. They will be tear-gassed and every news channel will praise the cops for it.
You don’t end seventy years of genocide support in a week.
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(2 replies)
Yep, you're exactly right. That's the best course of action.
Trump would also send the military in to break up the demonstration
I feel like you can add this to the right side
One of those two people is going to be elected. One of them will do nothing, and the other will actively make it worse.
Le bingo!
It's not like Biden or Harris could've done a thing without being labeled a bunch of incompetent flip-floppers.
Imagine Trump saying they took too long, and the blood is on their hands, and he'd never do such a thing. But we all know how he handles stuff - on a golf course.
They'd just get Benghazi-ed and Gaza would still get leveled because Trump likes showing off how can do stuff like that. Probably make some off-hand disparaging comments about the dead like he usually does. His supporters would say even worse and laugh about all of it, run over the protesters, bust out the fire hoses, all that. Like they usually do.
So, who you gonna vote for? Hopefully not a bunch of assholes that'll openly mock you or even drive a car through a crowd (like what has happened). Trump would say that there are good people on both sides after you get your shit kicked in at a protest. Don't let 2020 make you forget how shitty 2016-2018 was because it was.
They'll take anything from you, do anything to you, spit right in your face and walk away laughing, and you'll just curl up screaming because there's no recourse, like the good old days under Trump. Still, all for naught
Voting for Harris means voting for an adult administration and the continuance of Democracy. It is always possible to have a grown up conversation with adults who are sane and respect the right of the people to speak out, demonstrate and get their members of congress to act better. . A vote for trump will be the end of American freedom. That administration will be in it for the money from whoever pays. And people dying will not be a problem. If war & genocide makes them money, that's what will happen. Your rights and freedoms end when you speak against that administration. Gaza will be leveled and made into beach condos. Lebanon will become part of Israel. Ukraine will be Russia. Taiwan & Hong Kong will be strictly ruled by China. . Your vote is not about making a "statement". Your vote is about keeping the freedom you enjoy as an American. It's about electing the candidate that is a qualified adult. Just because the candidate is not the perfect one for you, does not mean you are going to "show them" with your protest vote for the other party. Especially when the other party has blatantly shown you that they don't actually care about Americans, and they will turn our own military on us in retaliation. 100 years ago Germans had no idea that they would die in camps. Be tortured, raped, or be subjected to horrific medical experiments. But it happened. . It's 2024, and 1 candidate is running on a platform that helps Americans and fosters a much better future that we have had. And 1 candidate just had a rally at Madison Square Garden in support of his idol. The idol that the entire world knows as the evil who created those concentration camps. . Sadly, it really is about Freedom & Democracy. All Americans need to think it through. Let's just hope you don't regret your decision.
Single issue voters damage democracy.
A system which necessitates or otherwise helps create single-issue voting damages democracy*
Eh, not always. We're getting a lot of white women voters who previously voted for Trump thanks to abortion, for example. I wouldn't judge voters for voting for what they care about. The leaders should owe the voters, not the other way around.
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Who wants to vote swap with me? I'll write in Refaat Alareer if someone votes Kamala in a swing state. I'm in California so don't tell me I'd be wasting my vote.
No one is really checking where and how people are operating from for those nuances to come out.
Judging from the points being made here in this thread, clearly there was little reading of the article to begin with.
Even article headline uses 'Arab-American' and 'Pro-palestinian' interchangeably. The perfect level of wrong that creates a bunch of uncertainty and confusion.
If I actually loved someone and understood that I was going to throw them into
A) a horrendous situation, or
B) a mildly less horrendous situation with a very real yet depressingly tiny chance of ending it,
and understood that if I tried choosing a third option I would end up with A...I would choose B.
In the better situation, the understanding is not there, and this video is probably what's missing: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
If they have truly internalized that and still insist on defaulting to A by means of refusing the choice and going third party, then they care more about flipping off Democrats than helping Palestinians, with is real ugly.
It's very weird that in a story involving a genocide, nerdy arcane voting mechanics are the main character. Not as in "the most important", but as in "the unassuming hinge on which the nasty stuff turns".
I feel like my earlier thoughts are still just as relevant. I still think everyone needs to go out of their way to vote Harris, I also consider Harris' Campaign to be entirely responsible for the outcome. Harris got a major boost when picking Walz, his progressive policies are very popular, but now has only waned once she started moving to the right to pick up 'moderate' republicans at the expense of her base. (Most Moderates still skew towards progressive policies)
Previous comment
I feel like you have to understand the circumstances of those affected most by this genocide to understand. It's easy to be logical and vote Harris as she is the least worse option, but that's harder to do when directly affected. I consider the blame to be entirely on the Democratic Administration and Harris' Campaign Strategy. They have had every opportunity to change course, and them deciding not to may very well cost them the election. I will not blame anti-genocide voters, especially those who are directly affected and have lost loved ones.
I'm still voting for Harris, on the basis that change from public pressure is far more unlikely under Trump.
The rhetoric coming out of the White House, when it has been focused on peace or restraint, rather than continuous war, has been undercut at every turn by its actions. The constant supply of weapons — $17.9 billion of bullets, bombs, shells, and other military aid in the past year — has allowed Israel to keep waging its war on Gaza, and in recent weeks, expand that war to Lebanon and threaten to escalate its conflict with Iran. Despite documentation of U.S. weapons being used in probable war crimes, and credible allegations that Israel is committing genocide in its war on Gaza, the bombs have continued to flow.
https://theintercept.com/2024/10/09/white-house-oct-7-israel-war-gaza/
Here you can track the rhetoric and actions of the Biden Administration month by month. The US has been supplying the weapons used for Israel's genocide unconditionally for a year. Against international law, against domestic law, against the will of the majority of the population, and all with US taxpayer money. This is pro-genocide foreign policy.
Harris, instead of breaking from Biden on this issue, has not deviated. She has repeatedly ignored the voices of Palestinian Americans, Arab Americans, and Muslim Americans on this issue. These people are directly affected, they have friends and family in Palestine and Lebanon that have been killed by Israel. She has not only taken their votes for granted, but has offered no concessions and ignored their voices. People are angry at Biden and Harris for this. They desperately want change, but they don't see that from the Democratic administration.
Despite Trump's horrendous track record, he has gained in their support solely because of how Harris has campaigned. It's not logical, but it's hard to be when directly affected by the actions of the current administration and no prospect for change. Advocating them to vote for the 'lesser evil' doesn't work when the 'lesser evil' is directly responsible for the deaths of their loved ones. Trump successfully framed himself as a Dove and Hillary as a warmonger in 2016. He's using that same tactic now. It would be a completely unsuccessful framing if Harris pivoted to Arms Embargo or Conditional Aid, but that has not happened.
Breaking from Biden would be a major boost in voter output.
Quote
Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.
- Split Ticket (July 2024)
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In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
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- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
Quotes
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Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
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