this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] FlapJackFlapper@lemm.ee 15 points 2 days ago (5 children)

The fact that capitalism taints everything it touches is not a criticism of the things it touches.

[–] Katrisia@lemm.ee 8 points 2 days ago

Yet, it's not as simple as "scientists are under capitalists' interests", but "the ideologies within capitalism permeate the way we do science". A common example is how we measure functionality (and therefore pathology itself) in medicine.

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

Also corporations tie employment of scientists to the number of papers they publish, as well as burying data that is financially harmful.

[–] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 32 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is why the last step of science is broad consensus, which has solved literally every single example of bad science in this entire thread. All this means is people should pay more attention to sources.

[–] galanthus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Broad consensus may be the "last step of science" only insofar as the scientific community accepting a theoretical framework as a complete, perfect, objective truth would mean no more science and no more scientific community, only fools and fanatics.

[–] mo_lave@reddthat.com 17 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Why not both?

What's decided to be worthy of study is subjective. The process to hypothesize, experiment, and conclude what's being studied is objective.

[–] underwire212@lemm.ee 5 points 2 days ago

Ideally, absolutely. That’s what makes the hallmarks of a great scientist.

In practice, institutionalized science can be just as dogmatic and closed-minded as some of the worst religions.

I have had advisors/coworkers/management straight up ignore certain evidence because it didn’t fit their preconceived views of what the results “should be”. This doesn’t make the process of science objective anymore when people are crafting experiments in ways to fit their views, or cherry picking data that conforms to their views.

And you would be surprised at how often this happens in very high-stakes science industries (people’s lives are at stake). It’s fucking disgusting, and extremely dangerous.

[–] Katrisia@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago

Even by itself, the first statement might not be the case. I don't remember the book that well, but I remember thinking it was a good introduction to this topic. Philosophy of Science: A Very Brief Introduction by Samir Okasha.

[–] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Do you or have you ever worked in science? I did for a bit and that was not my impression.

One cannot really argue that science as practiced is very effective at certain things but it is also extremely far from being objective in practice. Especially the further you stray from simple physical systems.

Also like I never saw someone formulate a hypothesis in any sort of formal sense haha.

[–] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 2 days ago

Do you or have you ever worked in science? I did for a bit and that was not my impression.

I imagine it depends heavily on the field. In some fields there are ideas that one can't seriously study because they're considered settled or can't be studied without doing more harm than any believed good that could be achieved. There are others subject to essentially ideological capture where the barrier to publish is largely determined by how ideologically aligned you are (fields linked to an identity group have a bad habit of being about activism first and accurate observation of reality second).

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Probably depends on the field or even the institution. My experience is much more positive.

[–] LibertyLizard 134 points 3 days ago (7 children)

True but people also use this as an excuse to dismiss any research they disagree with which is idiotic.

Most research is legit. It just might not be interpreted correctly, or it might not be the whole picture. But it shouldn’t be ignored because you don’t like it.

People are especially prone to this with Econ research in my experience.

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 42 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

For sure, but it’s important to keep in mind in fields with large financial interests.

Medicine especially. Most studies claiming Cealiac disease (gluten allergy) was not real before it was conclusively proven to be legitimate were funded by bread companies. You won’t believe the number of studies funded by insurance companies trying to show that certain diseases aren’t really disabling, (even though they really are).

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[–] A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It doesn't matters what it is, if you use a strawman I will automatically disagree.

[–] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You're going to hate wojak comics

[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago

🔫👨‍🚀 I always have.

[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 100 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (20 children)

This is a clean example of an ignoratio elenchi fallacy.

Statement B attempts to use Statement A to make an unrelated point that isn't necessarily untrue, but it is still unrelated.

This could be done with any combination of...

"Under capitalism, is..."
"Under , science is..."

They would all result in a statement that supports Speaker B, but is no longer relevant to what Speaker A stated, as the topic has changed. In this case, from science to capitalism.

I.e. It's an anti-capitalism meme attempting to use science to appeal to a broader audience through relevance fallacy. Both statements may be true, but do not belong in the same picture.

Unless, of course, "that's the joke" and I'm just that dumb.

Edit: I'm not a supporter of capitalism. But I am a supporter of science—haha, like it needs me to exist—and this is an interesting example of social science. It seems personal opinion is paramount to some individuals rather than unbiased assessment of the statement as a whole. Call me boring and autistic, but that's what science be and anything else isn't science, it's just personal opinion, belief, theory, etc.

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I think you're reading statement B too literally. I'm pretty sure the idea behind it is related to critical theory and is an objection to the idea that rationality is trustworthy and that class conflict should be regarded as a higher truth. In that way statement B is relevant to statement A; it's an implicit rejection of it.

[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

It's not literal; as the fallacy credits, neither is it necessarily wrong. But(!!!), they're just not related.

The entire post itself—and your reply—is social science. But science is incapable of alignment to any -ism. All isms are human-made. If they are 100% true, they are not isms.

Edit: Sorry, I'm drunk af, so probably you are right...maybe... At least in my mind, I'm just reading Statement B as literally as Statement A and therefore can't see correlation without social agenda—theyre just two very different things. Science and agenda; or agenda using "science". It's bias. That's very unscientific.

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

can’t see correlation without social agenda—theyre just two very different things. Science and agenda; or agenda using “science”. It’s bias. That’s very unscientific.

The idea is that the place the OP meme is coming from is likely a belief that science and agenda are not different things and rather are inseparable. It is very unscientific, it's a fundamentally anti-intellectual attitude.

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[–] Draconic_NEO@mander.xyz 30 points 3 days ago

Let's also not forget that Scientists are also humans. Humans with their own beliefs and biases which do get transferred into studies. Peer review can help reduce that but since peers are also humans with their own biases, but also common biases shared amongst humans it's not bulletproof either.

There will always be some level of bias which clouds judgement, or makes you see/think things that aren't objectively true, sometimes it comes with good intention, others not so much. It's always there though, and probably always will be. The key to good science is making it as minimal as possible.

[–] mostdubious@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

haha fUnNy mEme - gUeSs We cAn JuSt aBaNdOn SCiEnCe!

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[–] Antiproton@programming.dev 29 points 3 days ago (17 children)

Science doesn't change just because some groups try to use it to forward an agenda.

[–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago (3 children)

ignoring the other examples you've been given: it absolutely does even when it goes well. The scientific method is literally based on "other people must change and refine this, one person's work is not immutable nor should be taken as gospel"

Also what science is has changed. Science used to be natural philosophy and thus was combined with other non-scientific (to us) disciplines. Social sciences have only been around 200 years tops.

Some would debate that applied mathematics is science, others would say all sociology isn't science.

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[–] EleventhHour@lemmy.world 42 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (15 children)

This statement is ~~on the verge of being~~ a strawman argument. The first compares science to other systems of knowledge, while the second criticizes the subjects of scientific study under a capitalist influence.

These two statements do not refer to the same thing in context.

Edit: clarity

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 17 points 3 days ago (2 children)

If you catch your friends using Science as a religion, tell them they're not a skeptic, they're a cunt.

[–] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Am scientist (well, was, before career change), can confirm. Fuck dogmatic scientists, they're worse than regular dogmatists because they've been given many opportunities to know better.

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[–] Bookmeat@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago

Science is the process of getting things a little less wrong.

[–] Juice@midwest.social 4 points 2 days ago (12 children)

Does anybody understand what this meme is trying to say? I feel like its pretty obvious

[–] micka190@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

Neil DeGrass Tyson rails femboy doomers from behind while debating science or something idk.

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