this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2024
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[–] Vanth@reddthat.com 137 points 3 months ago (2 children)

The report cites inexperienced workforce, exacerbated by the limited pool to hire from in New Orleans and the non-competitive wages Boeing offers compared to other aerospace companies. Mobile and Huntsville are right there. Lol, pony up, Boeing.

And the report mentions operators are given work instructions that lack detail and require the operator to go diving through multiple levels of specifications and historical records to understand what to do. This speaks to inadequate manufacturing engineers and processes, who are putting out the inadequate work instructions. So I'm assuming the non-competitive pay and retention problems apply to their engineers too, not just the hourly operators and mechanics.

Work for Boeing for bad pay and to see this shit in the news? Or hop over to Mobile, AL to work for Airbus at a better wage on a popular commercial plane with good reliability and a good reputation. Decisions, decisions.

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 65 points 3 months ago (3 children)

the report mentions operators are given work instructions that lack detail and require the operator to go diving through multiple levels of specifications and historical records to understand what to do

Damn, That's a red flag for anything that flies. I imagine their compliance checklists during assembly are a mess.

[–] bowser1035@lemmy.world 35 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I work in automotive as an engineer and that would be a red flag in our industry too. Our safety standards are only a fraction as strict as aerospace for obvious reasons (we’re not shooting cars through the atmosphere at the speed of sound!), but we’d never get away with this with the amount of audits and accountability that we’re held to. This whole saga is absolutely insane.

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And then there Tesla with masking tape, dish soap, and 2x4s lmao.

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[–] atomicorange@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago

Hmm, space is a little different because so many products are one-offs. It’s hard to design checklists and detailed procedures when you’re making what are essentially prototypes each time. So you make more general processes and then your engineers apply them as needed to each unique build. It can end up looking like a bit of a mess. Space builds rely a lot on expert techs, good modular documentation, and multiple layers of engineering oversight because things change along the way and you can’t always plan for it.

I’m a process engineer at a different aerospace company. I standardize as much as I can and work hard to make instructions clear but man it’s a struggle. Boeing’s space group needs to pay people enough to retain good talent, because they’re all making decisions all day long.

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[–] sunzu@kbin.run 28 points 3 months ago (2 children)

non-competitive pay and retention problems apply to their engineers too

Bruhh this is how it is pretty much everywhere... The thing is even if the employee is competent there are but so many times being told your labour ain't shit, you don't deserve money for it ... How many times of no raise will a good worker take before either changing jobs or just doing work that the wages covers.

About time these" leadership" got exposed for their looting

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[–] fitgse@sh.itjust.works 71 points 3 months ago (2 children)

It seems like it is time to nationalize Boeing.

[–] Demdaru@lemmy.world 24 points 3 months ago (2 children)

...imagine fuxking NASA pulling this off. After so many fuckups in USA that didn't end with nationalising, a goddamn NASA going "welp, that's it" and managing to push for nationalising Boeing...

[–] fitgse@sh.itjust.works 24 points 3 months ago

NASA’s biggest issue over the last 35 years is that it became a political target. It is really hard to do long term design when your mission changes every 4 years along with a different budget. NASA should have a budget that is only reapproved every 30 years and should not have to worry about outside influence from a president dictating its mission.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 10 points 3 months ago

Them and the military. There's only one other major airplane military contractor, Lockheed, and then a couple of smaller companies.

The 6th gen fighter program, Next Generation Air Dominance, is supposed to be a family of planes where one human plane controls a small squadron of drones of various models. The Air Force gave contracts for two of those drones to some of the smaller companies beside Boeing and Lockheed. They tend not to come right out and say these things, but a good guess as to why is that they don't want to have those two be the only options.

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[–] shy_mia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 61 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Gotta pad those CEO bonuses somehow!

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago (2 children)

C'mon man, you know that 40 million dollar sign in bonus is absolutely necessary to get at least your garage and kitchen in order when you move.

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[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 51 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

Just like their planes. Al Jazeera made a really awesome documentary about Boeing and their terrible quality control. They gave some workers at one of the major Boeing assembly facilities hidden cameras and microphones, and let them interview their colleagues. The factory is full of crackheads, and most of Boeing's own employees who literally put the fucking planes together said that they wouldn't fly on these planes themselves.

[–] FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago

most of Boeing's own employees who literally put the fucking planes together said that they wouldn't fly on these planes themselves

Jesus Christ.

[–] Trigger2_2000@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Rejects from the plane assembly line. Now that's scary!

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[–] Kalysta@lemm.ee 44 points 3 months ago (3 children)

At this point the government just needs to sue Boeing into bankruptcy. They cannot be allowed to continue to gamble with others’ lives while taking taxpayer money

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 49 points 3 months ago

The need to seize the company. Boeing holds too many military contracts to be allowed to die. They build planes for the military, so they’ll get an inevitable bailout.

Instead, the government should start seizing parts of the company as part of the bailout. “Oh hey, we paid you all this money, so we own these parts of the company now. Shareholders have been fairly compensated for it by the bailout money, so you can’t say it’s unfair. You have proven that your leadership is lacking and you can’t be allowed to operate without oversight. So now that we own large swaths of the company, we’ll be making lots of the big decisions.”

[–] buttfarts@lemy.lol 21 points 3 months ago

Nationalize Boeing now

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[–] PanArab@lemm.ee 41 points 3 months ago (6 children)

The US is just collapsing everywhere. What a time to be alive.

[–] nifty@lemmy.world 35 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don’t think that’s a fair assessment, everything people have built up to now relies on a significantly greater amount of complexity. There is a lot which works well and is held together by hardworking, unsung normal everyday folks, but you don’t make the national news for getting shit done or keeping stuff functional.

That said, yeah the bean counters have fucking ruined engineering firms, and it’s a story which repeats itself over and over. There’s also the issue of nepo babies or “I know this person” incest in a lot of places where qualified people are passed over for someone “you know”. The nepotism and cronyism phenomenon is a huge problem for many institutions, not just engineering firms. Nepotism and cronyism is not just an American issue, it’s something you see everywhere.

Regarding unqualified people, I do think maybe standards should be raised for entry into some college programs. But the only way raising standards would make sense if we significantly invest in public education. In short, a lot of “breaking” of America is the direct result of short sighted Republican policies.

[–] EnderLaw@lemmy.world 31 points 3 months ago

Boeing shifted production to break the Seattle unions. That's been a sound financial decision so far...except for all of the failures and dead people.

[–] Chewget@lemm.ee 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well Boeing is just overall imploding...

[–] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Boeing is just a symptom of the rampant corporate greed and irresponsibility that modern MBAs teach as part of normal daily operations.

It affects everyone, makes everyone less safe and less secure. Enshittification on a world scale brought to you by Next Quarter Only bottom line capitalism.

But the powers that be are fine with it for now, mainly because of class war.

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[–] Muteman30@lemmy.world 40 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Holy shit. At this moment it really feels like Boarding just need to start at the top and fucking fire everyone involved with safety standards and manufacturing.

[–] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 109 points 3 months ago (8 children)

Hell no. FAA needs to realize what a disaster they've created by allowing self regulation of this industry and Crack down to a level that essentially strangulates a company like Boeing. Let them die and allow space for something newer with a quality and safety focus to grow. Saying they've fired people and put new people in won't change anything. They'll still slack on safety for profits.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 40 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The sad part is that will never happen in a timely manner as things stand currently, thanks to SCOTUS weakening the powers of federal agencies. The FAA should put their foot down, but it will likely get dragged out in legal battles over "the meaning of words like 'safety.'"

[–] evatronic@lemm.ee 11 points 3 months ago

Thomas Jefferson never added airplane safety regulations to the Constitution ergo, it's completely unregulated. Also, Justice Alito would like to cite a man with tapestries tied to his arms as he jumped off a cliff in the 9th century saying of course it's safe.

[–] ChocoboRocket@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

I've wondered about this, killing the "company" never really seemed like that big of a deal, as the structure (both physical building/tool/systems and operationally) don't simply vanish. You still have the knowledge and skillsets in the population, and the supply chains still exist.

The real problem with these "too big to fail" entities is that the people pulling the levers that cause failures never have any consequences whatsoever.

Yeah, you'll always need banks, energy, transportation, defence etc - operational mechanisms for exchanging goods, building, buying etc will never go away or 'fail' - but their operational practices absolutely could and should change

I'm so sick of the wealth class abusing absolutely everything to guarantee themselves more money than they could ever spend.

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[–] Steak@lemmy.ca 36 points 3 months ago (10 children)

That's most industries. Society is falling apart lol. Look how the secret service responded to an assassination attempt on trump. It was absolutely pathetic. These people are supposed to be the best of the best of the best. It doesn't surprise me that other industries are also experiencing this.

[–] KLISHDFSDF@lemmy.ml 19 points 3 months ago

There's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated

NOFX wrote about the rise of ignorance in America and the song "The Idiots Are Taking Over" is more appropriate now than ever before.

full lyrics below. link to song for anyone not familiar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sNWDfryyMk


It's not the right time to be sober
Now the idiots have taken over
Spreading like a social cancer, is there an answer?
Mensa membership conceding
Tell me why and how are all the stupid people breeding
Watson, it's really elementary
The industrial revolution
Has flipped the *removed* on evolution
The benevolent and wise are being thwarted, ostracized, what a bummer
The world keeps getting dumber
Insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason
Darwin's rolling over in his coffin
The fittest are surviving much less often
Now everything seems to be reversing, and it's worsening
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool
Now angry mob mentality's no longer the exception, it's the rule
And I'm starting to feel a lot like Charlton Heston
Stranded on a primate planet
Apes and orangutans that ran it to the ground
With generals and the armies that obeyed them
Followers following fables
Philosophies that enable them to rule without regard
There's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
Political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
Majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
Sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions
What are we left with?
A nation of god-fearing pregnant nationalists
Who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland
Pass on traditions
How to get ahead religions
And prosperity via simpleton culture
The idiots are taking over
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[–] aaaaace@lemmy.blahaj.zone 33 points 3 months ago (5 children)

The whole word, "No NASA, don't send astronauts on Boeing equipment!"

NASA, ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You lost an l and an upper arm there

[–] Silic0n_Alph4@lemmy.world 46 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That’s Boeing quality for you.

[–] Homescool@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)
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[–] thefartographer@lemm.ee 30 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

Define "unqualified."

Like, unqualified to even build a see-saw for a public playground? Agreed

Unqualified to work for Boeing? Highly debatable at this point

Can we please instate a corporate death penalty? And some sort of persona non grata for executives who contributed to the condemnable behavior?

Also, new rule: if the sum of pay and benefits for a company's C-suite and stock buybacks is greater than the sum of the pay for your non-contractor employees then all the stocks bought back must be transferred to your employees and contractors.

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[–] Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 25 points 3 months ago
[–] pyre@lemmy.world 24 points 3 months ago (2 children)

this will keep happening if you don't put people in prison for it.

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[–] jprice@kbin.run 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That’s how you squeeze profits from a good company and turn it to shit. That’s the capitalist nazi way!

[–] cmrn@lemmy.world 19 points 3 months ago

Every company is trying for the most unqualified workforce these days… but at least most of them don’t involve flight.

[–] peanutyam@lemmy.world 19 points 3 months ago

Well that’s nothing new - I worked for them “briefly” (as in weeks - ended up with a better job offer!!) and as an actual aircraft mechanic I was disgusted by what I saw - they had supervising roles filled with non-aircraft trades people, training was done by a former boat mechanic, there were butchers and carpenters - who, if you asked them thought they were far more capable than an aircraft mechanic as, actual aircraft trades are considered “problematic” by Boeing management (who are all ex Toyota staff for the most part…) because - aircraft mechanics are too slow for a production line environment as we tend to take our time too much for their liking (oh because we want to get it right first time?!) 🤦🏼‍♀️

I left and a week later the Max was grounded - the garbage that was spewing from senior management right before the grounding was eye roll inducing - about how they stand by the product bla bla bla and have no idea how shiny new aircraft could just fall out the sky…..of course we know how that turned out for them….

But yeah, Boeing, like Rolls Royce are not the brand a lot of people should think of as “high quality” until they sort their QA shit out and start employing actual aircraft tradespeople and engineeers who know what they are doing 🤷🏼‍♀️

[–] tacosplease@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago

Boeing was one of my accounts back before the pandemic. I had to respond to RFPs where my employer sold services to Boeing. They sucked to work with and just didn't understand really basic things about the services they were requesting in their own RFPs.

Disney and Walmart on the other hand were great. They were not pushovers, but they were consistently friendly, and they always knew their shit.

[–] tilefan@lemm.ee 15 points 3 months ago

imagine we find out Boeing really did build that submersible

[–] Jocker@sh.itjust.works 15 points 3 months ago

In a not so shocking comment, Boeing is run by an unqualified management.

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I still hate that NAA ended up in Boeing's hands after only two buyouts.

Totally nothing wrong with an aerospace company buying out its competitors and then promptly liquidating its assets.

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[–] SirNameHere@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago

Sounds like Boeing is being run by an unqualified work force

[–] Furbag@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago (19 children)

This wouldn't be a problem if we still had NASA doing the shuttle program, or some continuation of it, rather than outsourcing our spacecraft to the cutthroat lowest-bidder private sector. Is it really any surprise that SpaceX and Boeing are blowing up on the launchpads and having quality control issues when their sole objective is to make money? If we nationalized these initiatives again and cancelled the private contracts with these crooks, there would be no incentive for profiteering and corners would not get cut as often as they do now.

Sure, it would be a big cost to the taxpayer once again, but I think I'd rather have a reliable space program and like 2% less military budget to fund it, I think we'll manage somehow without producing more tanks and planes that nobody is asking for.

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[–] Marleyinoc@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Unbridled capitalism sucks ass.

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