this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
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Flavored vape bans led to increase in teen smoking (www.newsweek.com)
submitted 4 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/health@lemmy.world
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[–] Rottcodd@lemmy.world 61 points 4 months ago (3 children)

It's so incredibly obvious that that would happen that I sincerely believe that that's part of the intent.

Not to mention that all of this noise about flavored vape juice being some sort of underhanded scheme to rope in kids is one of the most ridiculously dumbass things that I've ever seen gibbering idiots apparently sincerely claim to believe. Well - this side of Qanon at least...

When I started vaping, premixed juice was the exception rather than the rule. So what you generally bought was nicotine extract, propylene glycol and/or vegetable glycerin, AND FLAVORING. Flavoring it was the standard literally from day one.

Nicotine juice is flavored and has been flavored all along for two very simple reasons: first and foremost because on its own, it tastes like crap, and second because everybody - not just kids but EVERYBODY - likes for things to taste good.

I am so fucking tired of assholes and idiots.

[–] Tedrow@lemmy.world 25 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Come on, you know adults don't like things that taste good!

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

"Gimme a drink that burns like fuck going down and tastes like old wood."

"Here's your whiskey. And for you, sir?"

"I want the same burning, but can mine taste like pine sol?"

"Here's your gin."

[–] militaryintelligence@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

"Burn, of course, but I have this cough"

"One jaegermeister coming up"

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 7 points 4 months ago

Old people do be eatin that liver at the diner tho

[–] Pacmanlives@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

Agreed, I am a non smoker and would hit my friends blends every now and then. Ended up using virgin juice for a while. It’s fun to take a few puffs and put it down. Lasts me forever too since I was not using it very often

[–] militaryintelligence@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

This should interest you: The DARE program to keep kids off drugs, talk about drugs and vapes being bad. No mention of cigarettes

[–] Rottcodd@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I didn't know that, but I'm cynically unsurprised.

A curious fact adjacent to that:

The US tobacco settlement is still ongoing. Each year, tobacco companies have to pay a particular amount of money to state governments, nominally to help offset the societal costs of smoking.

The total amount of the payments made to a specific state in a specific year depends on the number of cigarettes sold in that state the previous year. Not tobacco products in general, but cigarettes specifically.

It's safe to assume that that's relevant.

[–] Veraxus@lemmy.world 58 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You mean more people turned to cigarettes when we took away the thing that helps keep people away from cigarettes?

:surprised Pikachu face:

[–] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 4 months ago (17 children)

On the other hand, many people, specially the young, are using more nicotine because of vapes. Less smoke, more substance.

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[–] Vinny_93@lemmy.world 24 points 4 months ago (1 children)

We can at least take solace in the fact that there is nothing we could have done to prevent this

[–] FatLegTed@piefed.social 20 points 4 months ago

Yep, we tried nothing and are now all out of ideas.

[–] Kiosade@lemmy.ca 19 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Imagine living in 2024 and deciding to start smoking, despite ALL the history and evidence pointing it being terrible for you and those around you.

[–] jeffw@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Implying kids give a fuck about that stuff? Anything to look cool

[–] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Look like a hardened character from the favorite tv show and rebel against their parents or consider years of evidence. Which one is a kid more likely to do on a whim?

I think banning TV show smoking was a bad idea, I think we should allow it but as long as that character dies of lung cancer just like the kids that get encouraged by this shit will.

[–] Kiosade@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

True, I tend to forget i’m more of the exception than the norm. I don’t just do things at the drop of a hat, especially if it costs a lot of money or could have long-standing repercussions, and I never would have rebelled against my parents. I don’t know how the people that do these things get by from day-to-day, it’s gotta be tough!

[–] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago

Trust me I understand!

[–] AncientFutureNow@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago

That was the plan.

[–] edwardbear@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That’s… exactly what the vape ban was made for.

[–] jeffw@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

To make people buy more cigs?

[–] edwardbear@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago

Vaping has been under attack since day one. If you put the legwork and trace every law made that targets vaping, the “Yay”s voting are all lobbied by… you got it. Big Tobacco Companies. Philip Morris, British American, etc etc.

I’m all for regulation, but this is made intentional. I won’t be surprised if Big Tobacco are rubbing their greedy little hands that the next wave nicotine hooked people are now their customers.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Once you start seeing the huge financial incentives to keeping people smoking cigarettes specifically, you can't unsee it. From tobacco companies, sure, but also from state governments. State governments get a large amount of revenue from cigarette smokers. And for many of the more financially mismanaged ones, that revenue pays off debts that would otherwise leave them insolvent.

Article from 2008. It wasn't just mortgages that were being "securitized", Wall Street managed to sell state governments on securitizing their payouts from the tobacco company Master Settlement Agreement. States sold those payments to Wall St for pennies on the dollar to get a quick infusion of cash, and now they owe and they can only keep paying if people keep smoking cigs.

Article from 2014, when the e-cig boom was starting. you can see how concerning the loss of revenue is.

So you get an unholy alliance between tobacco companies (who yes, own a lot of vape brands but see higher margins from traditional cigarettes) and state governments. Throw in the stupid parents having a moral panic, and the conclusion is obvious: ban vapes, leave cigarettes.

[–] StrawberryPigtails@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Well, saw that coming.

But I think everyone here's belief that it was intended for kids to go and buy tobacco products are wrong. All of the major tobacco companies have their hands in the vape market as well. Juul for example is owned by Altria which owns the Marlboro brand. They're called vice stocks for a reason.
I think that this is just a case where well meaning (I hope) busybodies refused to take basic psychology into account.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Vaping is a classic moral panic, like reefer madness, satanic panic and stranger danger.

Any time anyone does anything "for the safety of the children" it should be met with EXTREME skepticism.

[–] edwardbear@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Juul is the poster child always. Give another example. Anyone that vapes knows who the “Major” players are in the vape world - and those are the ones that consistently produce good flavours.

Big Tobacco wants to push their shit IQOS devices. Or straight up regular cigarettes. Vaping is like 0.001% of their assets.

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[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 months ago

when are people gonna notice that banning drugs does NOT WORK?

[–] Laser@feddit.de 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I don't really understand the comments here. This is not about vaping being banned, just the flavored variant (which I do have several issues with).

Why would people not just switch to unflavored vaping instead of smoking? The article notes the ban doesn't seem to affect older vapers, which makes sense, as the flavored ones are tailored towards younger consumers, which is my main issue. They vape flavorless instead or have been doing it anyways. But why, if your strawberry cheesecake nicotine hit is no longer available, would you not switch to flavorless but instead to a taste that might be straight from the garbage?

[–] qwertilliopasd@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

All vaping products are flavored in some way. A tobacco flavored vape would not be banned under this, but it is still flavored. As to why people move to cigarettes, in my experience not-so-popular flavors are not easy to find and cigarettes are everywhere. Also the second cigarette tastes way different than the fist.

[–] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 months ago

I'm sorry but this comment is just very misinformed.

Why would people not just switch to unflavored vaping instead of smoking? [...] Would you not switch to flavorless?

Because there is no such thing as "unflavored vaping". Just forced flavors.

the flavored ones are tailored towards younger consumers

Also just untrue. I'm an ex smoker, but just can't stand tobacco flavored liquids, or menthol ones. Some vapers like those, others prefer fruits and cakes. And if you're already vaping, why wouldn't you choose what you like best? Especially considering the alternative is cigarettes.

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 5 points 4 months ago

But why, if your strawberry cheesecake nicotine hit is no longer available, would you not switch to flavorless but instead to a taste that might be straight from the garbage

I quit smoking about a decade ago. But I gotta say, I loved the smell and taste of cigarettes from the very first time I tried one, and I was very solidly an adult when I had my first. Some people are just wired to like it.

[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago

Adults enjoy flavors too, your taste buds don't die at 18.

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