this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
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[–] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 40 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (4 children)

Can someone smarter than me (I know, it’s a low bar) explain how DEI is unconstitutional? Especially when it comes to private enterprises like Apple and Costco?

Edit: okay, I found a decent article that lays it out. While I agree with the basic premise, I know its effect won’t be more equality.

[–] CitricBase@lemmy.world 18 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

DEI is basically "you know that thing we do where we only hire from the old boys club at our favorite ivy league university? Let's hold off on that."

Companies benefit from DEI policies because they expand their hiring pool, so the company ends up with better talent. They're still aiming to hire the best out of that pool, of course. Companies are motivated by profit, not by reparations.

I know its effect won’t be more equality.

Its effect will be more equality. Unfortunately that is not a good thing for the old boys club, which is what motivates the FUD and disinformation you've heard regarding DEI as a buzzword.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 hours ago

It's usually more than just "not only hiring old white dudes" but a conscious effort to make the place more representative of society by intentionally hiring people of diverse gender/ethnicity instead, sometimes leading to processes being closed to people who aren't part of certain groups, which might in theory go against some laws depending on where you live, but the same thing can be achieved by just wasting time filtering out white men's CV or just not calling them back after interviews, so I personally don't mind just being excluded and giving others a chance, if they don't have non white dude applicants then I'll get called and otherwise I've got plenty of doors open to me, more than most in fact and that's not ok.

[–] Shadow@lemmy.ca 31 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

My understanding is it's basically pulling the uno reverse card to suggest it's anti-white behaviour.

"I got passed over for a promotion cause they needed another minority manager instead of a white one" type stuff

I'm not American so no idea what your constitution says.

[–] galaskorz@discuss.online 29 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

The constitution say very little, yet people love to interpret it.

[–] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 21 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (4 children)

the whole DEI inititive generally is to get people who historically underprivileged more positions at work. this however in a few instances, would lead to someone being hired because of their race, rather than skillset. Theres ongoing anti sentiment who fully believe that anything with DEI has made a company gone downhill (with basically 0 evidence, or very anecdotal evidence proving so)

Constitutionally, some claim it to be unconstitutional because of the 14th amendment that states:

“No state shall...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

as the idea of affirmative action, or DEI programs bascially give minorities a higher chance of being hired, therefore the idea is that people were not equally protected under law.

basically programs typically put Whites (and Asians in some contexts, tech jobs and universities) at a disadvantage.

personally, i think most of it is hubabaloo, and most companies know(or should know) the minimum requirement they are looking for out of an employee since most of them already want the cheapest person in the building regardless of race. I just think the argument that they wont hire the best person suited for the job a fallacy, as if they were THAT good, then they would never get passed up to fill some racial quota. No one is going around for example passing up on Jim Keller (cpu architecture guru) over a minority designer who has little experience. for the jobs that require the best, a company will look for it regardless.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Correct, unless it's for work that doesn't require special qualifications then it's usually a question of "out of those employees with very similar qualifications, is one of them part of an ethnic minority/a woman?"

[–] Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works 1 points 15 minutes ago

I like your definition, but I would argue the question is less "are they an ethnic minority or woman?" And more "do they have likely have experiences and perspectives different from our existing team based on their demographic?" A homogenous team is more likely to share a blind spot or weakness. It's why varied backgrounds, ages, and gender identities are helpful.

[–] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

I want to add that while I agree that in most companies "most of it is hubabaloo" and the companies just hire qualified people, there are some loud and visible examples of blatantly unqualified people getting a position with only apparent qualification being pronouns in their bio. For example a game developers spokesperson not realizing calling all gamers "insufferable bigoted incels" on social media is not a reasonable way to market a videogame.

So while most companies just call countering biases in hiring DEI, the term DEI for many people is now associated with hiring unqualified people, largely because those rare examples I mentioned being amplified and presented as the norm by right-wingers.

If you ask me, companies should drop the term DEI from their hiring policies and just write them neutrally. Sure, most of the perception of unfairness is probably unfounded, but not all of it. And whether true or not, the perception that the hiring process was not fair by people rejected by the hiring process just builds resentment and builds support for morons like Trump that speak against such policies.

[–] Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 minutes ago

I fully agree with your second point, it's so easy to blame minorities (be it racial or gender or sexual identity) that those situations are what gets talked abkut. The number of unqualified people who are hired/have been hired based on who they know vs what they know probably far outweighs mishandled DEI policies.

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

“No state shall...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Republicans have gotten away with breaking this so many times...

[–] Archer@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

Well y’see there’s this one weird trick where you can declare people not people anymore

[–] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

Thank you. That was easy to understand.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 0 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

And why are we comparing Apple to Costco?

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 hours ago

Because both companies are doing the same thing at the moment regarding a certain subject...