this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2024

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130

U.S. Plans to Send Weapons to Israel Amid Biden Push for Cease-Fire Deal (www.wsj.com)

submitted 8 months ago by Linkerbaan@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

28 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The Biden administration is preparing to send bombs and other weapons to Israel that would add to its military arsenal even as the U.S. pushes for a cease-fire in the war in Gaza, according to current and former U.S. officials.

The proposed arms delivery includes roughly a thousand each of MK-82 bombs, KMU-572 Joint Direct Attack Munitions that add precision guidance to bombs, and FMU-139 bomb fuses, the officials said. The arms are estimated to be worth tens of millions of dollars. The proposed delivery is still being reviewed internally by the administration, a U.S. official said, and the details of the proposal could change before the Biden administration notifies congressional committee leaders who would need to approve the transfer.

The planned weapons transfer comes during a crucial moment in the war in Gaza as Israel prepares to launch an assault on the city of Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip, where more than one million Palestinians are sheltering from the war. Israel has said it needs to expand its military offensive in the area to attack Hamas militants hiding among civilians who have fled there from other areas of the strip.

An assessment of the proposed arms transfer drafted by the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem, and viewed by The Wall Street Journal, said the Israeli government requested “rapid acquisition of these items for the defense of Israel against continued and emerging regional threats.”

The assessment said there were no potential human rights concerns with the sale. “Israel takes effective action to prevent gross violations of human rights and to hold security forces responsible that violate those rights. In the past, Israel has been a transparent partner in U.S. investigations into allegations of defense article misuse,” the assessment says.

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[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 43 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Because the best way to show the aggressor that you're serious about demanding a ceasefire is to send BOMBS to them!

The official line is that the US is only sending weapons so that Israel can defend themselves, but how the fuck do you use a bomb defensively??

[–] CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago

Use it on an orphanage or a hospital

[–] fluxion@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

The only US ally that can use a bomb defensively right now is Ukraine because they are actively being invaded by our most belligerent enemy. WTF aren't we sending this equipment there instead?

[–] Municipal0379@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago

I understand your sentiment but you absolutely can use a bomb defensively. You can use it in a CAS capability, to drop bridges to prevent enemy advances, etc., just look to Ukraine.

[+] DdCno1@kbin.social -20 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Israel is many things, but calling them "the" aggressor in this conflict is extremely dishonest.

but how the fuck do you use a bomb defensively

Are you serious?

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Israel is many things, but calling them "the" aggressor in this conflict is extremely dishonest.

Yeah? Who has been killing and oppressing who for the past 75 years? Who's suffered 20-30 times as many civilian casualties as the other? Paints a very clear picture of who's being aggressive if you ask me..

Are you serious?

Yeah, I'm seriously aware about the fact that there's no such thing as a defensive bombing.

[–] bartolomeo@suppo.fi 4 points 8 months ago

Haven't you ever heard of a victim that occupies and bombs their oppressor 24/7? It's called "nuance"... look it up.

[+] DdCno1@kbin.social -15 points 8 months ago (3 children)

This conflict as we know it today started with the Arab nations jointly attacking the young nation of Israel. Egypt then occupied Gaza for decades, as did Jordan with the West Bank. Neither permitted the local Palestinian Arabs any influence on how they were being governed and the occupation regimes were generally authoritarian and oppressive.

You're showing either ignorance or dishonesty by instead claiming "75 years of oppression". This conflict is far more complex than that.

The lopsided civilian death toll primarily exists for two reasons: Israel goes to extreme lengths to protect its civilian population: Bomb shelters in nearly every home, early warning systems, missile defense systems. Palestinian leadership on the other hand openly encourages and forces as many civilians to die as possible, so that they can use them as political ammunition, both domestically and internationally, so that naive people like you repeat these numbers as if they were some gotcha that determines guilt. They are also routinely inflating death tolls and they stopped distinguishing between military and civilian deaths years ago, which further increases the numbers, as a sandal militia coming up against an experienced standing army will of course suffer disproportionately high losses in combat.

And yes of course you can use a bomb defensively in a military context. If you know an enemy force is about to attack you and you bomb them, the site of a planned ambush or their military infrastructure instead, is that not the defensive use of a bomb?

[–] ralphio@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You skipped one step at the beginning where Israel took power by force in '48.

[+] DdCno1@kbin.social -11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

And by force you mean by UN mandate.

[–] ralphio@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Might makes right arguments don't resonate with me.

[+] DdCno1@kbin.social -6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Then you should be glad that the Arab attempt at implementing this maxim was unsuccessful.

[–] ralphio@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Framing the Arabs as the mighty over the Europeans is a new one for me.

[+] DdCno1@kbin.social -7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

They were fighting Israel, not the entire might of Europe. In this context, they were mightier (population-wise, economically, militarily, including in terms of equipment), but they made terrible use of what they had and were fighting a people that was standing with their backs against the wall.

[–] ralphio@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Israel was supplied arms from Europe during the war.

[+] DdCno1@kbin.social -7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

There was an arms embargo. They clandestinely bought modified Czechoslovakian-built Messerschmidts (which were awful) to use them against far superior Egyptian Spitfires. There were also various smaller purchases of arms from Europe, again in a clandestine manner. They would typically e.g. purchase a few hundred rifles through a Nicaraguan front firm, the ship would then conveniently "sink" somewhere after having offloaded the guns somewhere in international waters onto a ship heading for Israel. Other weapons, like tanks, were bought literally from scrapyards and repaired again. They got a few American bombers, which had been converted into civilian transport aircraft, converting them back to military spec - which resulted in prison sentences for the Americans who helped them with this.

Generally though, due to the American- and British-enforced embargo, the dire economic situation of the new nation of Israel and the fact that they were surrounded from all sides, except for the ocean, meant that there was a shortage of everything in Israel and that they did not have enough weapons at any point during this war. They very quickly resorted to building their own small arms as a start - that's where the famous Uzi submachine gun comes from. Decades later, they would start to build their own tanks, after realizing that relying on foreign imports was inadvisable, since the political situation could change rapidly and since imported tanks weren't ideal for their requirements. In the 1980s to early '90s, they had a program for a domestic fighter jet, which however was ended due to American pressure. The plans for this likely ended up in China.

As you can see, dumbing this down to "was supplied arms from Europe" doesn't really tell the whole story.

[–] ralphio@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

I've have not read any analysis that has not said the Czech weapons were superior, but I'm not a weapons expert. The Israelis also had more fighting men than the combined Arab forces. This Israel underdog narrative is mythology.

[–] bartolomeo@suppo.fi 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Wait so they illegaly aquired weapons and war machines to drive the locals out so they could start their country? That makes Israel sound much worse than what the other guy said.

[–] DdCno1@kbin.social -3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Where do you think Jews are from? Mars? They are just as much locals as Arab Palestinians.

[–] bartolomeo@suppo.fi 1 points 8 months ago

No, the vast majority of them emigrated to Palestine starting at the end of the 19th century, but even then they made up something like 15% of the population. You might be referring to the racial claim to the land, that since Jews came from Canaanites in the region thousands of years ago that the land belongs to Jews today, but of course that's ludicrous. Please take a look at this one example, the occupied city of Akka. It had 1.2% Jewish population in 1922, and then

Before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War broke out, the Carmeli Brigade's 21 Battalion commander had repeatedly damaged the Al-Kabri aqueduct that furnished Acre with water, and when Arab repairs managed to restore water supply, then resorted to pouring flasks of typhoid and dysentery bacteria into the aqueduct, as part of a biological warfare programme. At some time in late April or early May 1948, - Jewish forces had cut the town's electricity supply responsible for pumping water - a typhoid epidemic broke out. Israeli officials later credited the facility with which they conquered the town in part to the effects of the demoralization induced by the epidemic.

So yes, they did that even though there were already Jews there, and now the city is under Israeli rule.

By the way, do you think Turkey (Ottoman Empire) or Italy (Roman Empire) have any claim to Palestinian land? Honest question.

[–] andrewrgross 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I see this stuff all the time, and I still don't quite know what to say.

I grew up on the same taking points as you. I'm aware of the failing of the Muslim leaders.

Take a big step back. Antisemitism is skyrocketing. Children who grew up in a concentration camp and losing limbs and whole families in death from above. Over a thousand Israelis are dead. Something like 50 thousand Palestinians are dead or maimed, and millions could die of deliberate starvation. Concertgoers raped, elderly kibbutniks held hostage for months while Israeli radicals prevent the merger food and medicine allowed by the government to pass on that would feed hostages and children.

So much has gone terribly wrong. Families in the West Bank are experiencing pogroms inflicted by the grandchildren of the victims of identical pogroms in Europe and Russia. Jewish Israeli hostages have been executed by the IDF. A Jewish Israeli civilian who killed two gunmen on a rampage in Jerusalem is executed by Israeli police. Journalists and their families -- Palestinian and Jewish alike -- are being hunted inside Gaza and Israel, while an emboldened right wing openly celebrates what they proudly recognize as genocide. And hostages continue to die. Bombed, starved, buried.

STOP. It must stop. All of it. This isn't about defending Israel's right to exist. Even Israeli hawks and former prime ministers have acknowledged that this war has been hijacked for wicked ends that don't make Israel safe.

At this point, even Zionists need to wake up and call for a ceasefire. Because this is a shoah.

God, give men mercy. I'm crying. I can't bear watching this darkness. Wake up. Lovers of Israel: WAKE THE FUCK UP. Unchecked, the Jewish fascism movement is going to destroy Israel.

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

calling them “the” aggressor in this conflict is extremely dishonest.

Not if you live in the real world and possess a functioning moral compass.

[–] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago

Welp, didn't take long to show everyone that Bidens words were only lip service.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)

[–] bartolomeo@suppo.fi -5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What does "holocaust" mean in this meme? IIUC holocaust refers only to the Jewish victims of Nazi genocide. It's neither funny nor appropriate to suggest that would happen again.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Holocaust: a sacrifice in which the offering was burned completely on an altar

Or in this case: Using bombs which explode (fire) to mass murder people as a sacrifice for Zionism.

Also israel is already committing Genocide not sure where you've been the past 4 months.

[–] bartolomeo@suppo.fi 3 points 8 months ago

Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'd never heard that definition of holocaust.