we get it. cops are cowards. why else would this be one of the only countries where officers are lethally armed around the clock. cowards.
this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2023
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And cowardice bred from ignorance and stupidity. It's not even that dangerous of a job comparatively. And many including myself believe it would be even less dangerous if they stopped arming themselves like they're going to war.
It would be nice if counties stopped allowing them to buy armoured vehicles and ... this is a big one ... gave every one of them a psych eval prior to hiring.
cops should be tested for steroid use randomly and monthly.
My guess as long as 320 million people have 434 million legal firearms the cops are not going to give theirs up either.
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Well you didn't do something silly like give control over the means of monitoring the police to only the police right? . . . right?
You bring up a fair point. This should be investigated. In the interest of fairness let the investigation be handled by the police.
They've investigated themselves and found that everything they're doing is completely acceptable. Carry on citizen.
Hear me out on this, but I don't think the public should be seeing most body cam footage. I don't think anyone should be seeing most bodycam footage, including the officer that shot the video and their department.
When I inform a cop of a crime, I don't particularly want that conversation released to the general public. While I don't technically have "privacy" while providing such a tip, I don't think it unreasonable that my identity and information should be held in fairly strict confidence.
Body cam footage isn't supposed to be released under public records requests. Metadata indicating that footage was shot at a particular time and place should be released, but the footage itself should only be accessible with a subpoena. Not even the cop who shot it should have access to that footage without a subpoena. That footage should go into a black hole, and only be pulled out with judicial oversight. Only the metadata should be widely available, to inform potential complainants of what video they can subpoena.
The video should be easily accessible to complainants, plaintiffs, or defendants through subpoena, but that's about it.
At the same time, I think a body camera should serve as an officer's time clock. They should only be paid while their camera is turned on, and they should not be entitled to any privileges, powers, or protections afforded to law enforcement officers (especially including qualified immunity) while scheduled to work, but not on camera.
A police victim’s family definitely has the right to see the footage, imo. Otherwise they can just mark everything as “accidental” or “unavoidable” like it already happens.
A police victim's family does, indeed, have the right to the video. As complainants. The video will be subpoenaed as part of the investigation that they demand.
The process by which the family gets access to the video is the exact one I described.
I think that already requires some legal knowledge poor families might not have. I’m not American so I don’t know the procedure, correct me if I’m wrong, but issuing a subpoena doesn’t feel like an easy thing from what I read.
I can see why you would think that, but that's really not the case. What I'm explaining is more a technicality than anything.
The family thinks the police did something wrong. They express that belief to someone. That someone is an investigator. It might be a prosecutor, it might be an attorney, it might be the executor of the deceased's estate, or a victim's advocate, or their insurance agent, or the sheriff, or the FBI... It might first go to the press or a family friend, but it is going to quickly be referred to some investigator or another. (This is all assuming the family isn't investigating directly; they certainly have the right to conduct the investigation themselves, and file a motion for a subpoena)
The investigator(s) assigned to the case will have need for all the evidence, and they will be the ones drafting the subpoena. The family can request the video from the investigator, or subpoena it directly, but the video will only be released with a subpoena.
Let me put it a different way:
"I am a family member of the deceased" is not enough to get the video.
"I am a family member of the deceased, and I think their death was suspicious" is enough to get a subpoena, and thus the video.
That’s reassuring, but then I’m confused by this:
In 79 of those deaths, ProPublica confirmed that body-worn camera video exists. But more than a year later, authorities or victims’ families had released the footage of only 33 incidents.
ProPublica’s review shows that withholding body-worn camera footage from the public has become so entrenched in some cities that even pleas from victims’ families don’t serve to shake the video loose.
If getting the footage is relatively easy, why can’t those videos be released even if the families want it? Am I misreading it and is the situation more “families have the video, but not the clearance to show it to the public”?
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The problem with that is you're relying on these people to be honest, which we know is a huge problem.
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I agree though I’ll add another group: Internal Affairs officers. If a cop has been accused of habitual wrongdoing I want IA to have easy access to it.
That said the current problem is that even on camera they have a habit of intentionally blocking its view.
IA has access by way of a subpoena. They can present allegations or a complaint, same as anyone else, and request access to all related evidence. They shouldn't be going fishing. They should need some sort of justification before they should be allowed to pull tape.
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Absolutely not. That defeats the entire purpose. Foia requests should 100% be answered.
An officer wears a body camera. A confidential informant against the mafia runs up to him in the street and starts talking to him.
A mafia lawyer files a FOIA request for the body camera video of every officer in the department.
Should the department comply with this FOIA request, give up the video and expose the informant to the mafia?
Should the officer be allowed to leave his camera off throughout the day, so as to avoid creating a record that he would be forced to turn over?
Suppose I were to SWAT you. I spoof your number, call the police, tell them I'm you, get them to raid "my" house. They get all geared up, turn in their cameras, raid your house, discover it was a prank. Should I, or anyone I tell, now be allowed to file a FOIA request for their video footage, and publish it "for the lulz"?
The idealistic, absolute position you took here would be ripe for abuse.
I want those cameras running all day long. They should be incorporated into the officer's badge, and have no "off" setting. It should be recording from the time they take it off the charger at the start of their shift, and should keep running until they put it back on the charger after their shift.
The only way that level of intrusiveness is feasible is if nobody - and I mean nobody - can view that video without a warrant or a subpoena.
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If nothing else, the lack of shown footage should be shifting some mindsets about police.
"What a load of criminals complaining about everything. Obviously, our boys in blue would never do anything suspect, as you'll see now that they can show you footage of their own perfectly orderly arrests."
"They all keep their cameras off and never turn over body cam footage."
"B-...huh? But...they're noble protectors that have nothing to hide...! Why would they...?"
Conservatives will literally reply to that with:
Sotimes you gotta rough up the bad guys so they learn not to do it. It's a cops god given right to sort out the bad apples like that, they just turn the cam off because the LIBRULS would take them over coals for doing gods work
Conservatives just like seeing police beat up those they disagree with.
Minorities*
same thing
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...most of the footage is kept from public view
Well yeah, unedited video footage has this odd tendency to exonerate the innocent and impugn the guilty
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Claim that reform will do thing.
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Reform fails to do thing.
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Cries of surprise from assembly.
The problem is that the reform was supposed to add accountability. But if the public can't access the footage and police are free to "accidentally" turn their bodycams off before or "oopsie woopsie I deleted the footage" after they break the law there's zero accountability, and therefore no meaningful reform.
are you saying police cams are useless, or that the police are purposefully obstructing justice by blocking the footage. im confused
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Usually the reform doesn't really fail, it does exactly what it's supposed to do. The issue is how the reform is made or formulated in the first place.
It's almost like you can't force people to try to fix an irrevocably broken system because you're afraid of living without it
It's almost like we should have overthrown them or something
It's almost like everyone was propagandized into accepting band aid solutions and refused to listen when they were told it wouldn't work
How many of those same police departments willingly released certain footage though as defense of their own officers in court after careful review and redaction?
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Abolish police.
There's no "reforming" a system that was BUILT this way.
I don't want to hear it. Find another place to lick boots.
The system in the USA is built this way. There are countries in the world where police officers act professionally and can be trusted.
We don't want a lawless, free for all place without any law enforcement, we deserve a proper force, trained to behave in a professional manner, and monitored to do so.
You could describe the deep reform needed as "abolish and then build from the ground", but that's a matter of how to reach the goal, rather than a change in the goal itself'.
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The watering down of "Defund the Police" for more palatable public consumption was a travesty.
"Oh no, we're reasonable! We just want the police to have access to more training and better tools to engage with the public!"
No, we wanted them gone, from the ground up.
It definitely showed just how powerful and overwhelming copaganda is. "Defund the Police" really struck a nerve with the people who hold the power in US society, I think we should keep striking that nerve.
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There is no such thing as reforming the Police. They are an evil collective of people.
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...isn't there a way to legally request any video footage? That's how all those body-cam yt channels get their footage from, by placing requests in. I thought it was a federal law that you can obtain any police cam video.
Yes you can request the footage, and they can also bury you in red tape until you give up the request.
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Pretty sure that's USA's Freedom of information Act.
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Wonder why that is..
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