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@improbablynotarobot I own several split keyboards at this point and very much prefer them. I have RSI and it's much more comfortable to type and helps keep my wrists at a comfortable angle.
As for tenting I haven't experimented with it much, but I know that a lot of people swear by it.
I have bi-lateral carpaltunnel (Mild left, moderate right) and have found it greatly managed in my life as a heavy computer user for work and pleasure by changing my keyboard to the Kinesis Advantage 2. This is an expensive keyboard that definitely isn't in a lot of people's range but thankfully work was able to get it for me to prevent further RSI.
I swear by this damn keyboard though. The split and boxy design perfectly aligns to my shoulder width, and my arms out in front of me rest very comfortably on the pads below each hand-well. The keys are ortholinear meaning instead of the usual QWERTY keyboards having a slight staggering of the keys (and thus, at least for me, I have a lot of micro-adjusting of my hands and wrist as I'm typing) the keys being aligned straight up and down where my fingers are resting means all I have to do is flex my fingers foward and back to hit the proper key. Having the very often used keys on my thumbs (backspace/delete/enter/control/alt/windows+CMD key) mean no more stretching out my pinky to push it.
Far more affordable options include the Iris split keyboards that are DIY in a kit (you provide your own key switches), which I've had my eye on for a long while but could never seem to tear myself away from the advantage 2. Since I've been issued a new laptop with work that is a lot thinner and easier to work out of a coffeeshop or drop-in desk somewhere with, I might start revisiting that conversation.
For completeness sake - I use a logitec Ergo M575 trackball mouse. I grew up laughing at a family member who worked in tech for using this kind of mouse back when it was that ball of clay and an optical sensor. I'm not laughing anymore now that I have to use it so my hands don't hurt from work at by the end of the day 😭
I'm a DevOps Engineer and thus, I spend 8+ hours at a keyboard a day... I finally decided that I should spend some money on a device i was going to use that much of my life and I now have two Iris's I built. I'm using one to write this that I made last year so i could leave the one I built back in 2019 at the office. Both were v2's. I can't recommend them enough. Takes a little getting used to as you'll want to figure out your layers and play with QMK for things like adding a numpad under a layer and adding in special keys and macro's and such, but It's been well worth it. My wrist pain completely went away. Between that and either logitech trackball, It's been a great setup for 4yrs now and I can't go back to normal keyboards for any decent amount of time before starting to feel sore. FWIW, the new Iris Rev 7's make it so there's almost no soldering or anything.
My setup is Tented as well, and I made matching wrist wrests to match the contour and tenting angles.
Technical Details:
I used my original Iris for 3 yrs before deciding I should use what I had laying around to make this one. I bought two sets of PCB's when I originally got the v2's as it was my first mechanical keyboard build and I didn't want to worry about screwing it up. But I didn't have any issues, so I had another set of PCBs laying around that whole time. I decided for this one I'd go all out and make a custom bottom of walnut and I had laser cut brass top plates. I also used Millmax sockets for the keyswitches so they're hot-swappable. Then, since the v2's still require your to solder your own Arduino Pro Micro's, I swapped those out for nice!nano's so it's fully BlueTooth wireless both between the halves and to the PC. I've filled it with Hako Trues and MT3 White-on-Black doubleshot keycaps. So far, I'll say the True's are a bit stiff sometimes, but I still quite enjoy typing on this thing.
I was the IT Director for a company that had a lot of data entry people. I had noticed that the keyboards that they were using were mostly plane jane, mismatched, membrane keyboards. After a bit of back and forth with purchasing I convinced the company to purchase a ton of mechanical (cherry reds), split ergonomic keyboards.
Within a month RSI reports were down by 95% and after 2 months were essentially nonexistent. I also noticed that people had stopped wearing wrist braces as well. I paired this with good, well shaped mice that would hopefully lead to less fatigue with repetitive motion.
My sample size is tiny, but there are 30 some odd people who if asked, would back me up on this. So while not thoroughly scientifically proven, I am willing to say that ergonomic keyboards do make a big difference. I think mechanical makes a pretty big difference too. Cherry reds activate with very little pressure and, imo, make typing long documents or notes much less annoying/stressful/painful/
I've been usung a Moonlander for a couple of months after a friend at work lent me his Ergodox EZ. The learning curve for someone who'd been trying freestyle for 30 years was tough, but I definitely prefer it now I'm accustomed.
Most ergo keyboard users are somewhat zealous, so if you know someone who uses one, they may be happy to lend you one on a temp basis.
I’ve got a Moonlander I’ve been using on and off for a while now, it’s hard to fully commit when I’m so comfortable typing on a 60% or 65%.
Agreed about people lending, I’ve let coworkers and friends borrow keyboards and even let some friends keep them because I have too many.
While I do not use tenting or physically split keyboards, I have been using ergonomic split keyboards for ~16 years. Not sure if that exactly fits the category you are looking at.
The specific keyboards have been the Microsoft natural ergonomic keyboard 4000, Microsoft Sculpt, and Logitech ERGO K860. I've been gaming on the PC since the early 90s and have been in IT and software development for ~26 years.
I have had no issues with carpal tunnel or RSI. While I obviously cannot say it was 100% due to the split keyboard design I believe it has likely helped to keep those issues at bay. Once you are used to a split keyboard design you can feel the pitch and stress on your wrists when using a standard keyboard. I have also always used the riser that rises the wrist end of the keyboard so you fingers are sort of "falling" down toward the keys.
I used that Microsoft 4000 keyboard for years, cleaned out the membrane on it 2 or 3 times before I had to replace the entire keyboard. Then was left hunting for something to replace it; I tried a lot of keyboards. In the end I've settled on the Logitech K860.
I'm not a big fan. I am somewhat of an outsider with a preference for trackballs over mice, though. MX ERGO FTW
I’ve built several. They are worth every penny. Not only reduced pain in the hands, wrist, and forearms. Also in my shoulders. I’m a fairly wide human and split tented allows you to place the separate parts at a more natural distance for shoulder/arm width.
My mother eve ended up stealing my last build. She’s not complained since and travels with it for work.
As a builder, would you say there's a somewhat budget pre-built option that's decent that lazy and curious people like me can look at?
I'm not having a lot of trouble with my body with the regular keyboards, but they do force.me into specific positions when I have to do actual work, because I need both sides of it rather than just the gaming one when I play.
Of the pre-builds you are going to be looking in the 200-300 range for any of the Ortho range. But to get started you could look at the Kinesis. They are in the 100-200 range, offer tenting and are split. Can often find them used on eBay as well. This was my entry into the custom keyboard world. Beware that rabbit hole though, it’s deep and can get super super expensive.
More anecdata, but 10-15 years ago I started getting RSI/carpal tunnel symptoms in both hands. I switched to tented keyboards (mainly Kinesis) and vertical mice (Anker among others) and the symptoms went away. I was able to finish out a programming career until I retired a few years ago. So thumbs-up from me. If you're on a Mac, the Kinesis Freestyle is perfectly plug & play. I would recommend checking out a vertical mouse at the same time.
I've been using a Microsoft natural keyboard since 1998. I switched over to the Elite when they came out and I have several spares stockpiled. They helped a lot with the wrist comfort and honestly they improved by typing by enforcing which fingers press which keys.
I have a hard time using a straight keyboard, not because I can't adapt but because they're just plain uncomfortable. So when a thing hurts when you do it then you stop doing it. You'll see.
I printed out and mostly built a Dactyl keyboard but never got around to finishing it because work is super picky about what USB devices can be hooked up to our machines and QMK firmware will absolutely look like a mouse jiggler to their security scanning software. I had to unplug a frickin' volume knob because it was alerting every day as a security risk or something.
I started off with the quefrency, a split 'normal' keyboard, then started making my own (3d printed handwired) orthos.
Then I saw the alu case for iris and got tempted but am unwilling to drop >$300 on a layout I've never used before, so designed my own case with tilt and 3d printed and handwired that (all for ~£30 only!! split orthos CAN be cheap! - my first post on Lemmy was on this :D) And have been daily driving it so far
Column staggered is defo the way to go
I have a ReDox keyboard built by https://falba.tech/. It took a month of getting used to but once I did I can’t go back. My wrist pain is gone and the layers I built make me faster in practice than I was on a standard layout.
Have the Moonlander, love it. Watch Ben Valleck(spelling)‘s Videos.
Seconding Ben Vallack’s videos. He really goes down the rabbit hole of split keyboards.
I think they're very good if you use your computer for a whole lot of typing and nothing else. Using a DVORAK keyboard instead of a QWERTY one will also improve your WPM and QoL when typing, once you're used to it. If you're a writer or a programmer, it's worth considering.
But much like DVORAK vs QWERTY, any non-typing tasks become affected. It's awkward playing PC games, for example, when some of your shortcuts for inventory/map are far enough from your kb hand to need your mouse hand. You also don't have much range to choose from, so may have to make compromises on things like keypress feedback, simultaneous presses, unit price, etc.
I learned to touch-type on a tented keyboard with a mild split. When I replaced it, I got a 'Wave' keyboard - not split, but slightly tented, and had depressions and curves to match the wrist and the finger lengths at rest on the home row. Both of them were membrane keyboards (full-depth keypress). Despite being a membrane keyboard, the Wave was still as chunky and loud as most mechanical keyboards.
But now, I'm just using a generic full-length mechanical keyboard (partial keypress) with relatively quiet switches, one chosen as a good compromise between gaming (sensitivity) and typing (feedback). I've changed my resting position a little so that my wrists are still in an A shape (not an H shape), but I'm finding the keys much more comfortable.
The old ergonomic keyboards didn't give much choice and in hindsight the feedback on the keys on the Wave felt AWFUL compared to what I use now. A split/tent mechanical keyboard might be different, but then price becomes a consideration. Swapping to a mechanical keyboard made the biggest difference to my comfort typing. (And don't let tall/loud keys fool you - not every chunky keyboard is mechanical.)
Interesting take on the gaming aspect! I've decided to try out the Moonlander and gaming is my main task after programming (sometimes before lol). Hoping the customization software gets me around some of the issues with having the buttons too far away.
I've got the EZ and it's not really a problem. Have a button to switch between my QWERTY (gaming) and colemak (everything else) layers. I occasionally forget to switch and wonder why I can't strafe right but it's fine.
I've used the ergodox ez for a couple of years, great device. Doing more with thumb is surprisingly convenient.
The small poles didn't do a lot of tenting. I came from yogitype (vertical keyboard), would have liked more.
A few months ago i switched to kinesis 360. Love the tenting of that, the keys are also a pleasure to type on.
Biggest downside is that my laptop keyboard is now even more horrible.
My first split was a Moonlander which I still have and use, and I love it. Then I got a Rollow and a Waterfowl (both on group buys) and I absolutely adore them.
It does take some reprogramming the muscle memory to get used to a split ortho, but it's been worth it. I can type longer without my wrists hurting, and the freedom in key customisation is awesome.
Using a split lets me keep my hands further apart, so my shoulders are back in a more natural position. That has helped quite a bit with upper back pain.
I tent the Moonlander, but not my other two. Tenting is really comfortable, but I'd recommend starting flat and increasing angle gradually since the split ortho is already a lot to get used to.
Switching to a split is also a good time to switch to another layout like colemak if you have any interest. Your fingers will be slightly confused anyway. Doing that helped me keep my QWERTY muscle memory for normal keyboards.
I bought a moonlander by ZSA about a year ago.
I found the split allows for a much more relaxed position while writing, and being able to adjust the halves individually when I reposition myself is very comfortable.
They also have the benefit of having thumb clusters, giving more work to the strongest finger of the hand.
Another benefit I find is that most split keyboards are fully programmable, which makes customizing it to your needs very nice.
The only drawback I find to this keyboard (apart from the price, which is not cheap) is that it is hefty, and not easy to transport. The fact that it is wired clutters a bit the desktop, if this is something that concerns you.
I recently built a corne low profile yo have something more transportable and wireless, but this is much more involved, as the configuration goes through writing code and not a nice UI.
However the comfort of this new board is very nice.
There was a whole subreddit dedicated to ergonomcal keyboards, ErgoMechKeyboards, which is very interesting to browse, as what I have done is seen as extreme by my coworkers, but tame compared to what some people are do.
It takes a little getting used to, but once you're flowing on a split with colemak-dh it feels very natural.
My personal experience and opinions on split keyboards is a bit different than those that have already commented.
I daily drove a Lilly58 for about two years. Switching to the ortho layout took some effort, but not enough to be a deterrent. And with capable and customizable firmware, any keys that were missing on my layout were made easily accessible with layers.
Having a wider shoulder stance felt nice. And being able to adjust the rotation of the boards on any given day to accommodate my posture felt good too.
However, there were a couple of factors that eventually got to me and caused me to switch back to a TKL.
First was the dynamics between mouse and keyboard. I use a mouse with my right hand. Grabbing a mouse then quickly switching my left hand to the right split was awkward. And hovering my hand over the center of the keyboard was not possible. I tried adding a trackball between the two halves and switching hands as needed, but getting my left hand to cooperate was a much bigger hurdle than I expected.
Second was the lack of hand movement. (I think what most find to be a benefit.). Over time I found that my hands would get tired and I would start making a lot more mistakes while typing. It took a while to figure out, but stretching my fingers to reach things like the function row and using my pinkies to reach for the standard modifiers actually gave me a reason to move my arms and wrists and not hold them in the same position for long periods of time. For me, maintaining position and the lack of movement was far more fatiguing then the stretching.
I don’t doubt for a minute that splits are great and that there are benefits to using them. I just think that how much benefit is very personal to the individual using them.
I’ve been trying so hard to get one, sadly where I live, this category is basically nonexistent.
I can’t get by without my lineages advantage 360 pro. It’s a ridiculous keyboard but the only one I’ve ever tried that hasn’t caused my arm to get inflamed after a days typing.
i have an ergodox and its good, but my kinesis advantage is noticably easier on my hands
I got Lulu Keyboard that’s split. I was having a lot of pain from typing and this has really helped me. I think I would upgrade and get an even nicer one to be honest
I use the Logitech ergonomic keyboard at work and love it. It does take some getting used to but it is definitely a more comfortable typing experience.
I use a BFO-9000 and I love it! Although its an ortholinear layout so if you went for it it'd probably take some time to get used to.
I've used a variety of split keyboards for a good number of years now, and it has made an enormous difference to the hand pain that was just starting before I switched, and also to my posture. I tried tenting too, but never really got comfy with that. I found that tenting helped me more when using higher profile split boards (i.e. with MX switches), but I preferred not tenting with low profile (Choc) switches. It's worth getting a board with the potential to tent though, as it is a very individual thing and you never know what will work best for you.
For reference, I am not a gamer, and try to avoid using the mouse as much as possible.
Boss bought me a UHK, I love it. The split and tent is great on my wrists and fingers. And it's extremely programmable.
I had an ergodox for a while. It was nice but it also did hurt more at the start but then I felt way better than with a normal keyboard. Are you experiencing RSI?
Not much, probably a minor case of it if so. Trying to get ahead of it at least but also just like the thought of moving towards a more ergonomic setup
Thanks for the advice!
I want a split, but I cannot yet justify buying another mech board. I've got three currently, and I use one at work, one on my personal PC, and one on my workstation/server machine. I may be able to justify it in the future if my arms/hands start hurting.
I've been thinking about getting a Moonlander for work. Been having some pain in my arms/shoulders/wrists after work. Would be my first split keyboard.
I built myself an Iris (v6 iirc) and I love it to pieces. I painted mine rainbow!
I also have an Iris! I haven’t tented mine and am trying to decide if I want to.
I’ve found it works fine for games, I usually just shove the right side of my keyboard out of the way for more mouse space, and just have a few extra mouse buttons to make up for not having the right side of the keyboard.
I set mine up with rotary encoders that give me up/down/left/right, so I don't have to take my hands off my keyboard to move around within an open file.
I haven't tented mine either, but have tossed around the idea a little bit.
I have the Dygma Raise, helped alleviate shoulder issues and RSI
I don’t have experience with either, but I find a keyboard tray with negative tilt very helpful ergonomically. (That is, the space bar is elevated relative to the F-keys, in contrast to the “normal” tilt of keyboards.) It’s far easier for me to keep my wrists in a neutral position with one. It might be a great compliment to a split keyboard if you opt for one.
Interesting! I've dropped from the positive tilt that I had to flat/zero and liking it so far (could just be the change of pace though). Never thought of the negative tilt. Feel like I wouldn't be able to use the wrist/palm rest at all
That’s part of the purpose! 😆 Many people (including my past self) tend to leave their wrists on the wrist rest while typing, causing the wrists to angle upward and create unnecessary strain. Though not everyone, of course.
I built a Lily58 keyboard a couple years ago, and I love it. Coincidentally enough, I posted about it today on another thread about mechanical keyboards on yet another server.
But I love how it turned out. It’s super comfy, and I actually enjoy that I can put that keyboard around another keyboard I use for my ipad. So during the day while working I can still use my ipad easily. Super nice.
Here’s a link to the image I posted with that thread:
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9184e3ce-60e3-443c-921b-8302d2a46bfb.jpeg
Getting comfortable with the ZSA Moonlander was a painfull process, you lose all muscle memory. But once you are comfortable with it, you'll never want to go back to a non ergo keyboard again.
I can vouch for a split keyboard. I am using moonlander which I find highly comfortable to use instead of the keyboard on my laptop - moonlander does have a steep learning curve but I find it worth it.
I built a wireless Kyria keyboard late last year and love it. I went with LEDs and OLEDS (not recommended, I basically have to leave both halves plugged in if I want to use them).
They are a lot more comfortable to use than a standard keyboard IMO.
