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Linux Mint bringing Wayland sessions to Cinnamon (blog.linuxmint.com)

submitted 7 months ago by ZcaT@lemmy.world to c/linux@lemmy.ml

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[-] heygooberman@lemmy.today 49 points 7 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Some positive news for a lot of Linux Mint users who have been complaining about the lack of Wayland support. However, as the blog post listed, it's only going to be experimental in the next major update of Version 21. Still, it'll be good to experience the change.

Also, very clever on the naming schemes used by the Debian and Mint teams for their stable and unstable releases.

[-] Petter1@lemm.ee 12 points 7 months ago

Funny times: while one distro kicks Xorg overboard, another distro finally includes Wayland as experimental.

[-] miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago

And then there's XFCE

[-] Petter1@lemm.ee 16 points 7 months ago

Which is not a distro nor a display server but, like kde and gnome, a desktop environment. They are actively working on wayland support as can be seen here: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap

So just for clarification 😇

And I recognized now that this post was about cinnamon desktop environment, which comes with mint distro, and not the distro itself. So the comparison to GNOME would have been more fitting from my site (they’ll drop Xorg support soon, but still let it be installed in post).

So, yea, and then there is XFCE where we have no real clue when Wayland support is completely ready. But it seems like it could work with something called xwayland that seem to kinda emulate Xorg on wayland 🧐

[-] miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago

Oh yeah, I was just mentioning them in general. The most exciting feature of their last big release was being able to change the clocks' font.

I trust XFCE to bring in new features only when they are 100% sure it'll work perfectly. That DE has been nothing but rocksolid for me, and I greatly appreciate that.

Though to push them a little bit, Xorg certainly has flaws when it comes to security, and since pretty much no one will make the effort of working on these flaws anymore, Wayland should be a higher priority for any distro or DE.

[-] QuandaleDingle@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

XD Linux devs are such nerds...I love it. Glad to see that Wayland is becoming the standard.

[-] Lord_ToRA@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

I've never heard of XD Linux before. I can't even find it on distrowatch.

[-] Czele@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

He's just Polish

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[+] aniki@lemm.ee 33 points 7 months ago

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[-] AMDIsOurLord@lemmy.ml 24 points 7 months ago

Ooooh how dare you? Dontyaknow Birdie from Phoronix is struggling to run a window manager from 1983 on a ATi Rage II with Wayland???!?!??

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[-] hesusingthespiritbomb@lemmy.world 14 points 7 months ago

So, as it's been stated, Wayland is still not universally better than X. There are still bugs in places. Gaming is still an issue. Kwin's implementation still isn't complete enough to be reliably introduced as the default.

This is after years and years of work. Yes, making an entirely new display protocol is hard. However Wayland was introduced as the "eventual X replacement" when I was in high school. I'm 30 now. I've heard some variation of "Wayland is almost ready" since my senior year of college.

At some point it becomes exhausting. At this point when someone says something along the lines of "in a year or two, Wayland will reach a point where X.org will be a thing of the past" my immediate reaction is to call bullshit.

[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 5 points 7 months ago

While I mostly agree with you, adoption and readiness follows a curve and, at some point, that curve begins to steepen. The curve ahead of us is steeper than the curve behind us.

GNOME defaults to Wayland now and is actually talking about removing X11 support. This Cinnamon post says that they will also do that in a couple of years. KDE is talking about doing it next year with Plasma 6.

Once GNOME and KDE have switched, the majority of Linux desktop users will be Wayland by default. Not only will that drive the ecosystem to fix remaining problems more quickly but it will just not matter as much.

In the next 36 months, it is going to go from “when will Wayland be ready” to “who is still using X”?

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[-] Kramt@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

My only issue with it currently is global hot keys. Push-to-talk on discord only seem to work when a xwayland window is in focus.

[-] chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 7 months ago

What I've done instead is configured a desktop hotkey that toggles the system-level microphone mute. Two birds with one stone: foolproof PTT and on the same hotkey regardless of Zoom/Meet/Teams/Slack/Discord (consulting is fun)

[-] pixelscript@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago

My sticking point with Discord in particular is that, at the moment, it's allergic to file drag and drop under Wayland. If I want to drag and drop a file attachment, I have to open the file explorer dialog and drag onto that.

This is more of a Discord being sluggish to update problem than a Wayland being unstable problem, but it's still extremely irritating.

[-] AProfessional@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

The API exists, just waiting for things to catch up.

[-] Atemu@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago

In the meantime (how many years did it take Discord to update their electron to a not-quite-as-ancient version the last time?), one thing I'd like to see here would be the option to allow listening to global keypresses for certain apps. Yes, that makes security slightly worse I guess but I'd rather have all the other benefits of Wayland working for me while this one isn't working yet.

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[-] cybersandwich@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

I am excited about Wayland. I'm just waiting on PopOS to run it as the default. I've tried using it but I was getting hard locks when I left my computer idle for a while.

The logs made it seem like it was a Wayland issue so I switched back to x11 for now. It hasn't happened since.

I imagine most people don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. They just want their distro and em to work well.

[-] Flaky@iusearchlinux.fyi 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Wayland has worked better than X.org in my experience.

I tried i3 with Compton and Picom - both compositors for X.org - and it had major rendering issues, both on AMD (weird lagging) and NVIDIA (colour issues). Meanwhile I tried Hyprland on a spare PC and it provides a great tiled WM with both form and function. If anything'll get me on a tiled WM, it'll be Hyprland now. I'm also looking forward to Wayfire. We need a spiritual successor to Compiz.

[-] cybersandwich@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

I'm glad to hear it. I am ready to start using it. The architecture is so much more modern and secure. I'm assuming(hoping) Cosmic will be on Wayland when it's launched.

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[-] Petter1@lemm.ee 6 points 7 months ago

What Remote Desktop tool works for you in Wayland? Found none Working well on Wayland (Maybe I did something wrong when I tried VNC and RDP)

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[-] ProdigalFrog 31 points 7 months ago

Quite glad to see Mint looking forward, good on them.

[-] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 4 points 7 months ago

I was perfectly confident that the Mint team would get around to Wayland support, when it was good and ready. By the time they get it implemented and set as the default, it'll work great.

[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 25 points 7 months ago

I like the careful approach. Yes, it's going to take longer. But when it finally arrives, it'll work.

[-] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 8 points 7 months ago

Perfect for their overall philosophy.

[-] Holzkohlen@feddit.de 19 points 7 months ago

It was always just a matter of time. A LOT of time in the case of anything wayland related apparently.

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[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 19 points 7 months ago

Its about time! Finally, I've been waiting a long time for this.

I wonder what will happen with the mate desktop? I know xfce is getting wayalnd support so mate might be the odd one out

[-] theshatterstone54@feddit.uk 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

No, MATE announced Wayland support a while back. Cinnamon was the odd one out until now

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[-] M137@lemm.ee 13 points 7 months ago

I often reread stuff while imagining I'm someone with no knowledge of the topic, the title of this post is a good example of how hilarious things become.

[-] tetris11@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago

What's to get? Linux's mint candy made a deal with rapper waylo to put cinnamon into their new flavour of linux

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[-] snowraven@sh.itjust.works 10 points 7 months ago

Yesss let's go.

I can finally die in peace.

[-] nx2@feddit.de 10 points 7 months ago

This is important when windows inevitably dies (subscription-based Windows 12?!) and linux mint gets flooded. Better have the "new" thing from the start

[-] Cralder@feddit.nu 17 points 7 months ago

Windows won't die what are you talking about? Windows 12 subscriptions are a) just a rumor and b) not for the entire os, just certain features like AI and stuff

[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 23 points 7 months ago

Trust me bro, Windows is gonna die any day now

-- Linux forum people, for as long as I can remember

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[-] samsy@feddit.de 6 points 7 months ago

I heard there will be a ”windows 365". If windows goes full online like office 365 then the underlining OS could be ~~everything~~ Linux.

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[-] mutter9355@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 7 months ago

As long as there is software that only runs on Windows, Windows won't die.

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[-] 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 7 months ago

Anyone know where the sources for this are? I can't find many references to Wayland in the main Cinnamon repo, at least using GitHub's search.

I wanted to check if they use wlroots for this or are writing yet another compositor from scratch.

[-] d_k_bo@feddit.de 13 points 7 months ago

Cinnamon uses Muffin, which is a fork of GNOME's Mutter: https://github.com/linuxmint/muffin

[-] sir_reginald@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

yet another compositor from scratch

it's a good thing to have multiple implementations of compositors. that avoids bad practices or making compositor specific programs that wouldn't work with other compositors.

[-] Patch@feddit.uk 5 points 7 months ago

I don't think there are many "compositors from scratch" are there? GNOME and KDE both have their own, Cinnamon uses a GNOME fork, and almost everything else I can think of is wlroots based. The only other one I can think of which isn't is Mir, which has been around almost as long as Wayland has.

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[-] CodingCarpenter@lemm.ee 10 points 7 months ago

Can someone explain to me what Wayland is? I don't fully understand I read wikis on it but I'm still new to a lot of this

[-] gornius@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

The way for your desktop to communicate with the hardware.

It used to be X11 - A server-client architecture, which meant your desktop was effectively just a client that told the server what to do. The server was the one doing the drawing

Wayland is just a protocol, defining how programs and desktop should communicate with each other - without a middleman that was X11 server. The desktop does the actual drawing here.

[-] TheButtonJustSpins@infosec.pub 9 points 7 months ago

So it's faster, basically?

[-] 0x2d@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago

Yes

[-] FrankTheHealer@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

Software that displays programs on screen. X11 goes way back and is inefficient. Wayland is the new standard but is seeing regular improvement and updates. I know Fedora have already moved to Wayland. I think Ubuntu have now too. Mint going this direction is good news.

TLDR, software that displays apps on screen. X11 is old and awkward. Wayland is new and better but has been slowly becoming standard.

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this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023

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