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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by poVoq to c/abolition

Winning proposal:

Once Derek Chauvin has been found guilty in a court of law, he is sentenced to a term of community service of a length and type appropriate to the severity of his crime. (So in this case, a lot. Life?) That community service is overseen by agents of the court; I’m thinking more like lawyers or clerks, less like armed bailiffs. Those agents are not charged with forcing him to stick to the community service, but rather just observing whether he does so.

If he forfeits on his community service, as determined by the courts, then he will be considered an “outlaw” - meaning, specifically, someone not protected by the law. Anything done to him that would ordinarily constitute a crime no longer does. No police are necessary; if he refuses to serve his time helping his fellow man, then anybody with a chip on their shoulder can punish him for it. As long as he sticks to his sentence, he’s safe, with his life dedicated to helping others. And if anyone were to commit a crime against him while he was in that situation they would face the same fate he currently faces—an appropriate community service sentence enforced by the threat of being put outside of the protection of the law should he violate that sentence.

Obviously, it’s crucial that the courts are seen as impartial and unimpeachable, since they don’t have a bunch of men with guns to enforce their will. But it’s the best I’ve got. Derek broke the social contract; either he makes amends or we’ll put him outside of the protection of that social contract. Simple as that.

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[-] Five 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This scheme isn't that different from Medieval Icelandic society, which some authors have called anarchy -- and which I think could accurately be described as proto-anarchy. Medieval Icelandic courts had no judges, only juries. Serious crimes were punished with exile. The most serious crimes were punished with redistribution of their possessions and home by the clan council and permanent exile. If they hadn't left the Island before the end of a grace period, they existed outside the protection of the social contract, and this is where the word 'útlagr' or 'outlaw' comes from.

I don't know how good the scholarship on this is, I just found it from a cursory search:

Ordered Anarchy: Evolution of the Decentralized Legal Order in the Icelandic Commonwealth

The Enforcement of Law and Penalties for Defection

All penalty was either in the form of restitution or fines.21 Restitution, or Útlegð, was used for lesser offenses, while fines were demanded in more serious cases. Fines, or Sekt, were either sentences of lesser outlawry, Fjörbaugsgarður, or greater outlawry, Skóggangur. A person sentenced to lesser outlawry was required to leave the country, the protection of "Our Law," for three years. Someone sentenced to greater outlawry was to leave the country permanently, and could be rightfully killed after three months. Both types of outlaws lost their property, which was distributed by the Féránsdómur. Only the guilty person's property, not that of his wife or other family members, could be confiscated, as long as the family member could show legitimate ownership.

Enforcement of judgments was private, in that the victim was responsible for enforcing a judgement in his favour. In most cases the law specified when payment of a judgement should take place, and failure to pay on time was itself a criminal offense. To make the system more effective, the payment of a judgment usually required witnesses or consultation with the aggressor's chieftain, and, in addition, the victim could sell his judgement to someone stronger than himself.

If the property of the outlaw was valued at more than the victim had a right to, complicated rules governed the distribution of what remained. The distribution of the remainder was so arranged as to provide incentives, usually monetary incentives, for others in society to see that the enforcement of the judgement was carried out. It seems that the Icelanders were keen not only on compromise in major disputes on what the law was, or should be, but in disputes between individuals compromise was also common. According to MILLER [1984:99], despite having "had a complex court structure, most disputes did not lead to adjudicated outcomes." In customary legal systems, this preference for compromise is widespread.

I don't advocate for a return to medieval practices, but it should be noted that the system was both relatively efficacious and much less cruel than the systems of justice popular on the European continent at the time.

[-] JacobCoffinWrites 4 points 7 months ago

This reminds me of the online game Tibia. If you attacked or killed another player, you got a skull over your character and if someone attacked/killed you while you had it, they wouldn't get a skull. That was it. It worked pretty well for as simple as it was, acting basically as a both warning and permission. Granted, guilt was determined by the all-knowing, impartial, moderation of the game engine, but it stuck with me. I don't know if I thought much about how similar it is to the old outlaw frameworks.

I suppose it also had the problem where if the outlaw is dangerous enough or has enough dangerous friends, the community's monopoly on violence falls into question. (We sometimes saw groups of high level players with red skulls walking right into town). It also depends a bit on society having people who want to personally do something to the outlaw.

this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
7 points (73.3% liked)

Abolition of police and prisons

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Abolish is to flourish! Against the prison industrial complex and for transformative justice.

See Critical Resistance's definitions below:

The Prison Industrial Complex

The prison industrial complex (PIC) is a term we use to describe the overlapping interests of government and industry that use surveillance, policing, and imprisonment as solutions to economic, social and political problems.

Through its reach and impact, the PIC helps and maintains the authority of people who get their power through racial, economic and other privileges. There are many ways this power is collected and maintained through the PIC, including creating mass media images that keep alive stereotypes of people of color, poor people, queer people, immigrants, youth, and other oppressed communities as criminal, delinquent, or deviant. This power is also maintained by earning huge profits for private companies that deal with prisons and police forces; helping earn political gains for "tough on crime" politicians; increasing the influence of prison guard and police unions; and eliminating social and political dissent by oppressed communities that make demands for self-determination and reorganization of power in the US.

Abolition

PIC abolition is a political vision with the goal of eliminating imprisonment, policing, and surveillance and creating lasting alternatives to punishment and imprisonment.

From where we are now, sometimes we can't really imagine what abolition is going to look like. Abolition isn't just about getting rid of buildings full of cages. It's also about undoing the society we live in because the PIC both feeds on and maintains oppression and inequalities through punishment, violence, and controls millions of people. Because the PIC is not an isolated system, abolition is a broad strategy. An abolitionist vision means that we must build models today that can represent how we want to live in the future. It means developing practical strategies for taking small steps that move us toward making our dreams real and that lead us all to believe that things really could be different. It means living this vision in our daily lives.

Abolition is both a practical organizing tool and a long-term goal.

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