this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)

We've had this discussion here on lemmy a few days ago: practically all electricity generation is by making turbines spin.

Hydropower means river makes turbine spin. Wind power means wind makes turbine spin. Coal/gas power means combustion makes turbine spin. Nuclear means hot steam makes turbine spin.

However, that doesn't mean that all electricity sources are spinny things.

  • solar cells have no mechanically moving parts
  • batteries utilize chemical energy directly
[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 day ago (3 children)

solar cells have no mechanically moving parts

ironically, large grid tie systems are starting to "emulate" the spinning mass behavior of turbine generators, since there's an exponential failure issue waiting to crop up if you aren't careful, as texas has already learned, a very significant part of your solar generation can just, go offline, if it decides grid conditions aren't suitable, which can lead to LARGE drops in power production and frequency, which is likely to kill even more generation.

So the solution is to make it emulate the physical mass tied to a turbine, or at least, more generously provide power in fault like conditions, to prevent this sort of exponential breakdown of the grid. You could of course, use a large spinning flywheel to regulate grid frequency, as is being used in a few places right now. I'm not sure how popular that is, outside of wind energy. It's likely to get more popular though.

weird little side tangent, but the frequency of electricity on the grid is essentially directly tied to the rotational speed of all turbines currently on the grid, meaning there is a very large inertia in the grid frequency, it's weird to think about, but makes perfect sense, and it provides for an interesting problem to solve at large scales like this.

Batteries are really fucking cool btw, the fact that you can just chemically store electricity, and then use it, is really fucking crazy. The fact that it's the most accessible technology is also insane to me. But maybe it's just the adoption being the way it is.

[–] MentallyExhausted@reddthat.com 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Also, solar trackers are a big deal for large farms when you start to scale above residential. Those trackers physically moving the panels to optimize generation are moving pieces.

this is sort of true, it depends on the array, but from what i understand, unless you're doing an experimental array, it's most common to just use fixed axis mounted panels, it's much cheaper and more cost effective that way. Ideally you would use a tracking array, which is better, but more complicated, and requires significantly more maintenance and investment. Single axis tracking arrays might be a clever solution to this problem though.

Regardless, it's not relevant to the grid inertia problem at hand.

[–] Steve@startrek.website 1 points 22 hours ago

I dont think this is true.

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[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 66 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Most of our power generations comes from "make water hot, hot water boils into steam, steam spins magnet"

Nuclear power is just a different source of heat.

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago (6 children)

Only alternatives that I'm aware of:

  • solar cells (converting photon energy into electricity)
  • acid batteries (converting chemical energy into electricity)
  • peltier devices (converting heat differential energy into electricity)
  • induction (converting electrical energy into electricity on a different circuit)
  • bioelectricity (using biochemical energy to produce electricity)
  • static buildup (using friction between various materials to produce a voltage differential)

I think there's a way to use lasers to generate electricity, too.

I think it's note-worthy that while the list is long, only 3 of them are practical to supply/regulate electricity on a large/industrial scale: solar, spinny things, and acid batteries.

We use all three of them in today's and in the future's electricity network.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 days ago

Piezo converting pressure or vibration to electricity

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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (7 children)

It's all variations of "make things spin."

Either by heating up water so steam makes thing spin, using wind to make thing spin, or moving water to make thing spin.

I am willing to bet if you watched photo cells on solar panels under a microscope, the light would make something spin.

[–] Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

Electrons are suspiciously close to spinning dynamos, so even just moving electrons might be considered spinning something.

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[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 106 points 2 days ago (4 children)

So. When I was in my junior year of college, the dorm I lived in was built more like a high occupancy apartment rather than a college dorm room, it had a living room and a kitchenette. No built-in stove but we were allowed to have a hot plate, so I went to K-Mart and bought a double burner one.

For some reason, one of my roommates had a cereal bowl that was in the shape of a saucepan. It was made of plastic, but it was black and had a handle. One day I walk into the apartment to an ungodly chemical smell and exactly the image above.

[–] lettruthout@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago (20 children)

Yup meltdowns happen sometimes. AND there’s the century-long legacy of radioactive waste!

[–] rtxn@lemmy.world 35 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Oh joy, I get to bust out these bad boys again! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aUODXeAM-k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhHHbgIy9jU

There's also that one guy who touched the hot part and is now using that tiny blister to conduct a decades-long smear campaign against the kinds of pots used at Three Mile Island.

[–] luce@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

kyle hill is interesting to me because when he is making videos about nuclear it is either the most terrifying nuclear horror story yet or facts and statistics about how safe nuclear is. I personally believe nuclear to be a super safe and efficient way to create energy, its just something I noticed. Makes me think about how common coal accidents are and how little they are covered compared to something supposedly scary like nuclear.

[–] skulblaka@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago

Nuclear has the same problem as aviation, by average it's many many times safer than most alternatives, but any time something goes wrong it has a high chance of going extremely wrong and making an international scene. So it's generally safer but every accident makes world news.

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[–] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago

Humans only have one good way to turn hot into lightning.

[–] M33@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 day ago
[–] grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 2 days ago

Spicy rocks make water hot.

[–] 4oreman@lemy.lol 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 17 points 2 days ago (65 children)

It is not the top one in the typical usage of the word "nuclear energy." Sure, it is nuclear energy, but that normally refers to electrical infrastructure, not nuclear weapons. Nuclear electricity is pretty much always just heating water up in a safe and controlled manner, and using that to spin a turbine.

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[–] recklessengagement@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago (5 children)
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