this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2024

146 points (95.6% liked)

Technology

59366 readers

4992 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.

Our Rules

Follow the lemmy.world rules.
Only tech related content.
Be excellent to each another!
Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
Politics threads may be removed.
No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

146

Manjaro is experimenting with **opt-out telemetry | Hacker News (More like op-out spying) (news.ycombinator.com)

submitted 21 hours ago by vordalack@lemm.ee to c/technology@lemmy.world

32 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Why are distro communities turning linux more and more into Windows and Mac OS clones?

This is why I use Arch.

all 33 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 34 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

I'm usually a defender of opt-out telemetry in Linux, what with it usually being trivial to untick in the installer, the telemetry not being invasive, the telemetry being private and not being able to identify people, it being used to actually benefit Linux rather than make money, and because opt-in telemetry is useless (as repeatedly stated by multiple Linux projects that I trust, such as KDE and Gnome)...

That said, holy shit this telemetry collects stuff it really should not be collecting. This is not what Linux telemetry should be. Doubly so from a distro with a troubled past in terms of management and security. This is a red flag.

[–] seaQueue@lemmy.world 71 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

Friends don't let friends use Manjaro

Use EndeavourOS or another Arch derivative instead.

[–] Zaphod@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 18 hours ago

Or just plain arch. Installing it with archinstall isn't that hard

[–] MissyBee@lemmy.world 20 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

Oh boy looks like my weekend will be spend learning and trying to install Arch without a graphical installer. To be fair Manjaro on my laptop was my first try at Arch. I never thought how much I will come to like AUR.

EndevaourOS is already on my gaming rig so plain Arch for my laptop seems like a good challenge. Farewell Manjaro, I learned a lot

[–] r00ty@kbin.life 5 points 12 hours ago

Going to second other comments. Even without archinstall. It feels like it will be harder than it is. Umm, just save yourself a bit of time and configure the network and install a console editor (nano/vim whatever) while in the chroot (if going full manual). It was a minor pain to work around that for me.

There are pages discussing how to do everything (helps to have a laptop with browser, or a phone to look them up). At the end, you generally know exactly what you installed (OK no-one watches all the dependencies), and I've found any borks that happen easy to fix because I know what I installed.

[–] noodlejetski@lemm.ee 9 points 14 hours ago

the archinstall script is officially supported and very straightforward. like, almost Calamares-but-in-TUI straightforward.

[–] seaQueue@lemmy.world 5 points 17 hours ago

It's not that hard, just read the install guides and instructions. My first Arch install was like 8y ago and I expected it to be difficult - it wasn't.

[–] user224@lemmy.sdf.org 28 points 19 hours ago (3 children)

Oh, you can vote whether it should be opt-in or opt-out.
Oh, voting requires "Trust level 1".

Anyway, I may stop donating to Manjaro due to this. Now I just go with Arch anyway. archinstall even makes it quick to setup a VM.

[–] ilmagico@lemmy.world 6 points 18 hours ago

I had a forum account from long ago that I barely use and even I was able to vote ... so if you had an account there, give it a try and vote!

[–] bruhduh@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago

The only thing archinstall script misses for me is option for flatpak setup from the get go

[+] vordalack@lemm.ee -18 points 19 hours ago (3 children)

Oh, voting requires “Trust level 1”.

I've found that some people use Linux just to be apart of the "cool tech kids" on the internet. They don't understand how to use a CLI, what kernel level access is, what a kernel is, or even how Linux actually works as opposed to Windows/Mac.

I think Manjaro was made for them. It's like the MLM version of a Linux distro.

[–] drake@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 15 hours ago

This is a “cool tech kid” opinion. Linux is for EVERYONE. Let’s not gatekeep it. Having GUI tools and stuff that is so easy to use that tech-illiterate people can use Linux is a great thing.

[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 24 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

Are you trying to gatekeep Linux to only power users that use a CLI, are way above the average in computer literacy, and happen to know the nuances between Linux and other operating systems?

This is the kind of thinking that will prevent adoption to the masses. Linux doesn't have to be stupid hard to use. There are specific distros like vanilla Arch for advanced users to tinker with and options like Manjaro and Ubuntu that are ideally functional out of the box for those that just want something to work.

What Manjaro is doing here is dumb AF, and should rightfully be heavily criticized, but you statement feels like your saying you should have to be a computer expert to use any Linux distro, and that's dumb.

[–] SaltySalamander@fedia.io 1 points 2 hours ago

These fuckers want to prevent adoption of Linux to the masses. They hate the very idea of someone new asking questions.

[+] taladar@sh.itjust.works -6 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

This is the kind of thinking that will prevent adoption to the masses.

Why do people always assume that is even something desirable? All that will get us is more requests for support with fewer people actually helping.

Linux doesn’t have to be stupid hard to use.

And the assumption that GUI=easy and CLI=hard should have really died in the 90s when it started.

[–] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

As someone who read at least 2/3 of the DOS 6 manual when it came out, and have used a variety of Linux flavors as well, a command prompt is the least helpful interface devised. What do you type there? How do you let the computer know when you're done typing? If the answers seem obvious to you, think about why, and what on the screen would point you that way if you hadn't had training. People are very visual, in general, and a simple interface such as a mouse that directs focus and has a minimal amount of interaction options is far easier to get started with, especially if the GUI has culturally intuitive icons (save needs updating).

I don't think the power of the command line, or text interfaces in general, can be overstated, but even the most helpful text interfaces, such as those found in some IDEs, require prior knowledge to be useful. This isn't going to work for the majority of people.

[–] taladar@sh.itjust.works 0 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

If you think GUI is intuitive you have never worked in support and despaired at people trying their best to get "simple" concepts like "left-click" vs. "right-click" wrong.

[–] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 2 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Oh, I have. Now imagine giving those people a command line.

[–] taladar@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

It is literally easier to explain to them how to do something on the command line than in a GUI, both in documentation and over the phone. That doesn't mean they will ever discover how to do something in either interface on their own but I don't really expect that from the people who make paper notes of the step-by-step process in GUI workflows anyway.

[–] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 1 points 16 minutes ago

Just try to verbally describe the difference between a bracket, brace, or parenthesis, or forward slash vs backslash. I'm sure it will be fine. But absolutely, a text-based interface is easier to describe in text.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

At least there's only a single way to tell the computer "ok, execute this command". And you see the command written in plain text before you.

And, no, no useful interface is intuitive because computers just have too many functions. There's no intuitive appliance in the world with more than a temperature knob and a timer knob. Knowledge is always required, be that cultural or by RTFM.

[–] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 minutes ago

Unfortunately, for the scenario I was replying to, a lot of the times when you're doing support, you can't see the user's screen and are limited to verbal communication, so verifying what they typed or the output can lead to just as many problems. Any support scenario where you're talking the other person through a series of tasks will be very dependent on how familiar each person is with the task you're supporting. And no one Rs TFM these days, if you even get one.

[–] original_reader@lemm.ee 17 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

I've found that some people use Linux just to be apart of the "cool tech kids" on the internet. They don't understand how to use a CLI...

I hope that's true. If Linux has come this far to make PC life possible for the cool kids, I say welcome to each and every one of them.

[–] user224@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 18 hours ago

I mean, when I started using Linux I also tried to avoid the CLI, and I was successful at that with Mint for quite a while. Actually, updating Mint in GUI is faster. I didn't find a way to enable parallel downloads for apt like for pacman, but the GUI does just that.

Very much possible nowdays. I haven't even switched from Windows, I got a first computer, didn't know the difference between Linux Mint and Windows, but I found Mint easier to use. Windows confused me with separate settings and control panel, and then some guide asking me to do woodoo in scary looking registry editor...

[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 13 points 18 hours ago

If I were using Manjaro right now, at the first opportunity, I would be switching to something else. Too much enshitification happening everywhere, and people need to start voting with their "wallets" to stop these greedy fucks.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 17 points 19 hours ago

Opt out telemetry is annoying. There's no guarantee it doesn't send before I've had a chance to disable.

[–] rando@lemmy.ml 6 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

I was just getting used to using Manjaro for my dev machines due to rolling release. Gotta find new flavor now.

[–] reseller_pledge609@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Consider Endeavour.

[–] rando@lemmy.ml 4 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Yup saw it recommended in one of the comments as well, I'll look it up.

[–] thurstylark@lemm.ee 7 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Finally time to update manjarno.snorlax.sh again -_-

[–] rxin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

That URL doesn't seem to be working.

[–] noodlejetski@lemm.ee 4 points 14 hours ago

https://manjarno.pages.dev/