Except the popular vote is also for trump, Sooo i don’t know, what the fuck ever
this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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Flippanarchy
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The popular vote is for nobody if you count the people who didn't vote.
Not voting is the decision that you are fine with tyranny, bigotry, or what ever. So the non voter May as well believe in what ever the winner believes and be treated as such.
There's different reasons to not vote.
Some are disengaged. They don't watch or read news, they often don't even know what's going on in the world around them.
Some are disenfranchised. There are obstacles that make voting difficult and confusing, and sometimes even impossible.
Some are dejected. After every election the Democrats mostly fail to help the people they promise to help during the elections.
Turnout is way down. We have to analyze why, not just lump them in with MAGA.
A vote not cast mathematically is equivalent to vote to the winner. There are tons of reasons one might have to abstain, but it's their responsibility to acknowledge that them not voting against the winner helped the winner win. Now, if they don't care that's another matter, but that they facilitated the winner to win is true.
By this sort of logic, if people who don't vote are responsible for whatever the winner does, then more so for those that voted. Which would mean anyone who voted for Biden last election are complicit in the Palestinian genocide, the failure of Biden to protect women's and trans rights in red states, etc. This blame game is stupid and accomplishes nothing. You think crying and blaming the people who didn't vote is gonna make them want to vote next election (if we even get one)?
A 20 days old account named comrade commenting on a 11 days comment, cool.
Which would mean anyone who voted for Biden last election are complicit in the Palestinian genocide, the failure of Biden to protect women's and trans rights in red states, etc.
Well, blaming citizens for actions that both parties would do is kinda pointless, yeah. This same logic can't be applied for policies exclusive to the red party, explicitly stated in the project 2025, can it?
You think crying and blaming the people who didn't vote is gonna make them want to vote next election (if we even get one)?
Oh, so you do acknowledge that this election was on a level that endangered democracy for the US, given that you suggest that there might not be a next election. Well, yeah I'm pissed that the US citizens overall made their utmost effort to elect a tyrant soon to be dictator. I'm not even in the same continent and I'm scared of the implications of having such a leader in the global war machine.
As an addendum, I did not cry and blame no one, my comment was to show that actions have consequences and that the ones that abstain should also be held accountable for the results. Not voting sends the message that you don't care, so you better not care when things worsen.
One. I have a new account because my old account was on Lemmy Unchained which seems to not exist anymore. Secondly I am an anarchist, so don't insinuate that I am a Russian bot.
Two. America is on the track to fascism, voting Kamala wouldn't have stopped it, merely slowed it. Not even stall it for an election cycle, cause states have been moving towards fascism independent of the president.
Three. There are plenty of reasons why people would either abstain or vote third party. Boycotting the system, refusing to be complicit in genocide, losing faith in the system, not feeling safe to, etc. None of these are the voters fault. Nearly all are the DNC's fault for continuing their strategy of appealing to the right.
I insinuated nothing, after the election Russian bots dissapeared, I just found it funny.
If A slows fascism B accelerates it so... Letting B win means accelerating fascism.
Not voting doesn't boycott anything. It doesn't stop the system from functioning, its not like Spain where if a coalition doesn't get an absolute majority (including white voters which are distinct from non voters) a second elections needs to be held, where the simple majority can win. This two step system is the wake up call white voters have for parties while still having the chance to actually vote in the second cycle. Plus, if the result would be fascism, it makes a loot of non votes vote on the second cycle. In any case, in america there's no white voting or anything, it's all simple majority wins so not voting isn't gonna boicott shit, only helps winners.
If they don't have faith in the system and they think that whatever they vote nothing will matter, then they don't get to complain when the worse option accelerates fascism since they partially caused that acceleration.
If both parties would act the same in this particular genocide, no voting again does nothing in regard so participating in genocide or not, citizens will regardless keep participating since it's their money that's going regardless of A or B.
None of those factors are the voters fault, no, but they are at fault of thinking that not voting they are saying something useful because they aren't.
The DNC fucked up big time by not appealing to those voters for sure, but let's not skip the blame on those voters when america gets even less rights for the LGTB+ collective and women way faster that it was going. I'm sure as hell not ever visiting america if any of that stuff changes, it scares me to even be a turist there.
Do you think most Americans are even capable of thinking mathematically?
Don't care, it's the citizens responsibility to be informed.
Not knowing that murder is ilegal doesn't make it legal. Not knowing circulation laws or law changes doesn't let you avoid a fine. It's the resposability of the people that participate in society, in driving, in a democratic process, to be properly informed. If they decide not to inform themselves they must abide by the consequences of their actions.
And it is the government's responsibility to educate the public well enough to have the critical for thinking skills to be informed. See any connection there?
Agree that we should have good enough public education to have critical thinking but disagree that it's its responsibility to do it, if the government won't its the citizen's responsibility, because in the end, if they don't take care it will be them who suffers.
I'm all in to facilitate such with proper education but it's the responsibility of each one to be informed.
It's our responsibility to inform them and get them organized. If we fail, we face the consequences too.
All i know is that when i went to my friend circles and let them know i voted and why, and before the polls were even closed one of my irl friends said “I’m not even registered to vote”. i damn well better find out that he’s a secret felon or we are about to have fucking words.
Well, that too of course, 100% agree. There was no shortage of "please don't abstain" posts around here and other social media I follow. I always preach that even if you don't like any party, voting what you dislike the least is extremely important, alongside whatever movent you want to do in the future to change the electors. I'm from Spain and I alloy the same way of thinking around here too, just voting might not be very effective, but whatever extra should be done, ALSO vote. O accept whatever result since that's what abstaining is.
Killing someone out of negligence is still killing and still a crime.
I don't see why the decision to not vote wouldn't still be a decision for whatever the outcome of not voting is.
Twist: the poster above me wanted you to vote for someone actively committing genocide
Felt like context needed to be added because your rhetoric is completely disconnected from reality
And it's disgusting
Oh wow you’re so smart, I’m sure trump won’t do worse!
Fuck, I was hoping we were done with you people after you got what you wanted and trump won.
oooo smarm smarm
smuggy smarm smarm.... lol smarm smug
That's you. That's what you look like.
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Yea, i know. And what i said still remains true. The disengaged do not care and are fine with tyranny or what ever, at least until it affects them. The careless fool. The disenfranchised were missing when they were needed most, they care, but not enough to surmount minor inconveniences. I have not heard of anyone who was prevented from voting only that it was inconvenient. The lazy fool. The dejected are people who care a lot, but know that you can never fix a system from within so why even try? The hapless fool. And then there is me. Who voted Democrat, knowing they are just a slower slide into tyranny, but did so because i believed that as long as i have any strength i must do all i can, leaving me the naive fool.
Voting for Democrats is not all you can do.
Also, no one in history has, or ever will vote fascism (or other tyranny) away.
Oh? Do tell.
Organize workers into militant labor unions and leverage them for political struggle. Inflation won't go away, it's a structural problem that comes from the collapse of the US empire. As economic conditions continue to worsen the unions will only grow larger and more powerful, regardless of what happens to the NLRB.
Already ahead of you there. I have picked up hobbies that would be valuable for this. Any particular groups that would be good to join?
I don't want to upset anyone, but both can be true.
if the first one is true then the second explanation is moot
Too soon was yesterday and earlier. The race is over - it's time to rub our own representatives noses in their bullshit and hope our country limps along well enough to give them a chance to apply the lesson. ...I'm not confident that opportunity will be on the table going forward.
If you're still putting your trust and faith in anyone to represent you and your interests within this system, you might have some lessons to learn yourself..
You can't keep playing their game over and over expecting a different result.
Direct action, mutual aid, dual power, horizontal governing. Those are the ways forward, not yet another cycle of electoral theatre.
I voted for the frying pan in hopes of avoiding the fire. I don't have faith in any of them, but there's a spectrum of awful they all fall on and I'd prefer to at least hang out on the less severe end of it.
But you're right, we absolutely cannot rely on this shit.
I’d prefer to at least hang out on the less severe end of it.
That end is an illusion, the "lesser evil" is there to manufacture consent for evil in general, and to help shift the Overton window to the right.
I'm not trying to have a go at you, I'm just frustrated and think people seriously need to be shaken out of this collective obedience to the rules of our oppressors. The existing system will never serve us, it is designed to do the opposite. If herr cheeto getting elected for a second term doesn't do it, what the fuck will?
Naw you're good. We're on the same page.
If herr cheeto getting elected for a second term doesn't do it, what the fuck will?
Not a damn thing. We don't have it in us. By the time the masses are uncomfortable enough to get up off the couch and do something about it, it'll be far too late. And I hate to say it, but self included.
We don’t have it in us. By the time the masses are uncomfortable enough to get up off the couch and do something about it, it’ll be far too late. And I hate to say it, but self included.
I guess I never had the privilege of such comfort to begin with.
Sadly I agree that many people will only act when personally affected, but I also think that A. more and more people are personally affected every day, and it's going to get rapidly worse but more importantly B. the less we insist on conforming to and working within the rules we've been told by our oppressors to follow, the more people we will reach. People think that resistance is about guerrilla fighting and pipe bombing and overnight worldwide revolution, but it's about building solidarity with your neighbours and co workers, unionising (at work, but also as renters for example), protecting the vulnerable people in your community, providing alternatives to the existing structures to ease the burden on ourselves and each other, all the things you need to make people feel safe enough to turn their backs on the status quo. There are ways for everyone to be included and participate to the best of their abilities, and while burnout and trauma and other difficulties and barriers are real, "not being personally affected yet" isn't a valid barrier.
You can't run away from making a choice, they are already coming for your neighbours, and eventually they will come for you.
I guess I never had the privilege of such comfort to begin with.
I may have overstated that unintentionally -- it's the fine line at making just enough to pay the bills, but the check-engine light still being terrifying. The comfort is that I've got a roof over my head (not my roof, my landlord's, in exchange for most of my paycheck), and food on the table (not healthy food, that shit's too expensive; but food).
If I get caught acting out of line, I'm a missed paycheck or two away from homeless, and that's a pretty powerful motivator. I'll still come here and bitch my landlord and such - that's not illegal yet. But actually taking to the streets? That's risky as fuck.
building solidarity with your neighbours and co workers
I've recently learned that most of those are Nazis. Unsure if solidarity is what I want.
You can’t run away from making a choice
The choice to do what? Guerrilla shit? Pretty sure that'd end really quickly with me either dead or in prison. Voting? Haven't missed an election big or small since 2016, and that hasn't accomplished shit. Supporting my community? That's why I went into health care (surgical tech currently, in school part time for nursing); and even once I become a nurse, I live in a state that legally mandates that I violate the nursing oath if I ever get a patient who needs reproductive or gender affirming care... pretty sure I can get in legal trouble just for telling them which states to visit where they actually can receive care. It's fucked. All of it.
they are already coming for your neighbours, and eventually they will come for you.
Yeah no shit - they even made a roadmap for how they're going to do it called Project 2025. My neighbors and I are fucked, and something like 80% of those neighbors are going to spend their last breath pointing at the other 20% and laughing from the other side of the toiled bowl as we all spiral down the drain together.
In that case I guess your only choice is to give up then.
That's the plan - RN is my ticket out of this shithole. I'm not aware of a political utopia, but there are at least a few options that aren't swan-diving into fascism. If I'm lucky, it'll be somewhere that dodges global instability long enough for me to die in a semi-natural way.
stole
Don't make me tap the sign!
I'm just happy that it gets upvoted somewhere
gotta post in the right places. Liberals will always downvote in rage anything like this, especially when they're as depressed as they are today.
The Democrats failed by trying to find common ground with the GOP - the electorate is more divided than ever, and if they want Trump, they're not going to vote for Trump-lite - they'll vote for Dorito Mussolini himself... and here we are.
It's just the right time actually
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