Pleasant Politics

215 readers

213 users here now

Politics without the jerks.

This community is watched over by a ruthless robot moderator to keep out bad actors. I don't know if it will work. Read !santabot@slrpnk.net for a full explanation. The short version is don't be a net negative to the community and you can post here.

Rules

Post political news, your own opinions, or discussion. Anything goes.

All posts must follow the slrpnk sitewide rules.

No personal attacks, no bigotry, no spam. Those will get a manual temporary ban.

founded 4 months ago

MODERATORS

auk

santa

AnarchoNina writes the harsh truth (social.treehouse.systems)

submitted 4 months ago by db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/pleasantpolitics

9 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/24322992

It's a pity I can't crosspost in lemmy in a way that would merge the comments in the original thread.

top 9 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] poVoq 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Obvious caveat, me being European, but I am not so sure MAGA has the "foot troops" to make a full on fascism happen. January 6th was a bunch of rag-tag fringe people running around in costumes and how far the existing state apparatus (mainly the police) will go along with it is hard to say.

For sure it will embolden the already hard-on fascists, but the historical Nazis had their own shock troopers (and many of them) to scare the majority into compliance and look the other way when really bad stuff happened. This was not the existing police force, but a paramilitary group that later became the SS. Other fascist regimes had similar large paramilitary groups to back them up.

I know this goes against the election strategy of scaring people to vote for the democrats no matter what (which is probably still what most people should do for tactical reasons), but if we are talking about "harsh truth", I think this is worth mentioning.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There's plenty of paramilitary groups in the USA, like the proud boys. Also this is not the same world we hade 90 years go. Things can work out massively differently today. For example, you don't need to directly terrorize people physically anymore, when you can silence them just as easily through stochastic terrorism like libs of tiktok does daily on twitter right now.

[–] poVoq 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Maybe, but at least the Proud Boys are not big enough for what I mean, and in general these paramilitary groups seem highly fractured and not all that well aligned with the main MAGA group.

And no, I don't think the world today is all that different. The Nazis already used public radio and later television to similar effect.

[–] punkisundead 3 points 4 months ago

While the fascists dont have their violent gangs ready, they can rely on the murderous police department do that job. The left/antifascists dont have that

[–] bane_killgrind 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

A bunch? You mean over 2000 people, many of which arrived ready with supplies and had the ability to frustrate "the existing state apparatus" by virtue of being that apparatus.

On December 8, Trump pardoned retired U. S. Army lieutenant general Michael Flynn, who had pleaded guilty to "willfully and knowingly" making false statements to the FBI about communications with the Russian ambassador. Flynn, a prominent QAnon proponent, participated in the D.C. events on January 5, while his brother, U.S. Army general Charles Flynn, would participate in a conference call on January 6 when he would refuse permission to deploy the National Guard after the breach of the Capitol.

Downplaying the severity of any of this is extremely irresponsible.

[–] poVoq 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

We are talking about a hypothetical full on fascist take-over here. As bad as January 6th was, it was a far cry from anything close to that.

And yes, the loyalty of parts of the US police and armed forces to democratic values is highly questionable, but it is still doubtful to me that the majority of them would actively facilitate a fascist take-over. Look the other way? Sure! But actively take part in it? Probably only a small minority.

[–] bane_killgrind 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

So I don't think you've read enough about this too understand that the choice between Trump or Biden actually came down to one individual that day.

In the US to mechanism for certifying and creating a transition of power came down to https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/as-jan-6-hearings-what-we-know-about-how-pences-day-unfolded-on-jan-6#:~:text=Pence%20spent%20the%20next%20hours,that%20he%20remain%20in%20place. this guy growing a spine and certifying the election.

The democracy in the US is tenuous enough that ratfucking the rules is enough to usurp the vote.

The other link i posted mentions half a million in Bitcoin transferred to one of these groups.

It's funded, coordinated, and effective. It missed the mark by a hair four years ago.

Edit sorry the Wikipedia page I referenced mentioned the .5m BTC I didn't link it.

[–] poVoq 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

You have a curiously mechanistic understanding of the political process. You think if someone throws a wrench like that, everyone else then just shrugs and says: well then, no other choice than to go along with it?

Such legalistic tricks only put a thin layer of legitimacy on a crooked process; mostly for the history books if the people that utilize them succeed though other means.

As for the other point, yes there are some rich people that really want fascism to happen in the US, but not everything can be done by just throwing money at it.

[–] bane_killgrind 1 points 4 months ago

It's not a trick if it's part of the process.

Most things get done by throwing money at it in the states. It's not a good place.