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Two-Thirds of Americans — Including a Majority of Biden Backers — Want Biden to Drop Out (truthout.org)
submitted 4 months ago by Five to c/usa@midwest.social
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[–] TacticsConsort@yiffit.net 68 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Man, this situation is fucking rough.

We all want the same thing: Continuation of democracy by ensuring Trump never touches office again.

But... Biden is obviously a qualified politician, a sitting incumbent which boosts his chances of keeping the job, and doing everything he can to be a good leader. On the other hand... I mean, we all know how things ended with Ruth Bader Ginsberg. She was one of the best Supreme Court Justices ever, and because she did EXACTLY what Biden is doing now and held onto the job even when it might not be appropriate to do so... Well, that's how we got Amy Coney-Barrett, a hard right supreme court, and the complete ruination of everything good that RBG ever did, all over that one mistake.

If replacing Biden with someone else was obviously possible, it would be a no-brainer. But... IS it possible to do that without giving Trump exactly the opportunity he needs?

It's a hell of a decision. One that might not even have a right choice.

[–] SineSwiper@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Except that's not how Presidental succession works. If Biden dies, Harris gets the job, not a lifetime GOP yes-woman like Amy Coney-Barrett. The RBG comparison makes no sense.

Replacing the incumbent Presidental candidate a few months before the election is political suicide. No election has ever been won that way, and it's sure as fuck not a good time to start experimenting with bizarre and dangerous ideas.

[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Say Biden dies tomorrow. Is it still too late to pick someone else? Would we just hand the election to Trump?

I can see that argument being made if the election was a few weeks away, but it isn't for 4 months. Over 100 days away. Are you really saying that nothing could be done in that time? And if you think him dying would be different circumstances than the mess we're in now, I challenge you to ask yourself why you think that way.

[–] SineSwiper@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If Biden dies tomorrow, the election would be lost. If we switch out Biden for somebody else, the election would be lost. If people decide to not vote because they aren't dazzled by their Democratic candidate, the election is lost.

If Biden dies after winning the election, Harris takes over, and we still have a Democratic President.

Those are your outcomes. Pick one.

[–] Mycatiskai@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 months ago

So if Biden bows out and lets Harris run the ticket then sounds like you get the same result as him dying.

She can't be attacked for being old and sleepy, she could probably even whip Trump's ass at a debate because she has a functioning brain.

She has the bonus of having access to the current election funds that Biden has because she is on the ticket already.

[–] Krono@lemmy.today -4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Can you explain how you think Biden can win this race?

Hes down 10-15% in the same polls from 4 years ago, hes getting killed in the press, and everytime he goes in front of a camera he reminds people that hes in cognitive decline.

How can the Biden campaign pull off the greatest comeback in political history?

Running a new candidate might be a bizarre and dangerous idea, but the current path leads directly to a Trump reelection.

[–] detectivemittens@beehaw.org 0 points 4 months ago

Just remember that polls made it seem like the far right was going to overwhelmingly win.

And then they didn’t.

[–] OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 months ago

The election is in a couple of months. Biden dropping out now would just be handing our democracy over to Trump on a silver platter.

[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 26 points 4 months ago (3 children)

wouldn't it be infinitely easier to just make him win, let him croak, and get harris in the job rather than have to start a campaign for her from scratch? within a few months?

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 26 points 4 months ago

The assumption here is that you can make him win, which is far from a given. Democrats win when turnout is high, and turnout is high when voters are enthusiastic about their candidate. "Vote for the senile guy! It's OK, he's gonna die soon," isn't a message that inspires enthusiasm.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago

This is why people say "you vote for an administration, not just a president".

[–] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 3 points 4 months ago

That doesn't give the same click inducing headlines though. Sewing doubt and spreading bullshit, however, drives up their ad revenue. All these so called polling numbers are fucking made up.

[–] UncleGrandPa@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This idea is being pushed by Russian propaganda farms.

It's main objective is to ensure trump wins. No sane person would want Biden to fold. To do so would absolutely ensure a trump victory

[–] grrgyle 6 points 4 months ago

I'm not American, but I am sane. Obviously no one with an ounce of empathy wants Trump to get elected, but I don't know where anyone is pulling these opinions from, other than their gut: that stepping down would ensure a Trump victory, or that staying the course in would ensure a Trump victory, or a Democrat victory for that matter.

[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago (3 children)

It doesn't matter what Democrats want. Ask a Republican what they want, and then do the opposite.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 8 points 4 months ago

They aren't electoral masterminds, they're just bigots.

[–] Mycatiskai@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 months ago

The Republican side wants to stay silent and not complain about Biden until 2 minutes after he gets the full nomination.

As soon as he is the locked in as nominee they will be spending hundreds of millions on ads calling him a senile old fool.

[–] TheSambassador@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I mean, what Republicans want is generally just the opposite of what Democrats want, plus some additional cruelty.

[–] vaquedoso@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You are citing an article published by 'truth out'. If that doesn't raise a red flag to you I don't know what to tell you.
Biden is the current incunbent, so unless you are trying to get Trump to win by posting this, there's no reason to try to replace biden as candidate so near the election.

[–] Five -4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

You think Truth Out wants Donald Trump to win?

Do you also think Jon Stewart is trying to get Trump to win? YT

[–] vaquedoso@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Don't put words on my mouth. I said that any site that calls themselves that should raise an eyebrow. And this is advice for you as well, you should pay attention to any site that claims only they have the truth. Reality is often complex and understanding it often requires nuance, so anyone that claims to be able to summarize it into a single truth always has an idea they want to push.

[–] cabron_offsets@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Brandon has to go. I’ll vote for any D, but it’s clear that his showmanship isn’t cutting it. And let’s be honest with ourselves: the election is about courting fucktard undecideds in just a few states. Substance is ancillary. Thwarting and imprisoning trump must be our primary objective.

[–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml -5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

How does Trump being in prison materially affect working class people? Trump is a symptom, not the cause.

[–] cabron_offsets@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Uh, because it shows everyone that criminals get fucked up by the law, even if they’re powerful douchecunts? You know, like what we supposedly stand for in this country?

[–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml -4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

How does that put more food on the table? How does that improve education? How does that improve wages? How does that reduce income inequality? How does that make childcare more attainable? How does that improve infrastructure? How does that make Healthcare more obtainable?

To say the American's highest priority should be imprisoning trump just shows how out of touch the democrats are. Individually incarcerating con men is not a strategy that will defeat fascism.

[–] cabron_offsets@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Right, it’s best to let treasonous rich fascist cunts go free. They’re known to take care of the poors.

[–] the_frumious_bandersnatch@programming.dev 2 points 4 months ago

So many folks in here immediately jumping to "well Trump does the same thing but worse!" as soon as any question about whether Biden can win is raised, like asking if the candidate will actually appeal to the broadest swath of America is the first step on the slippery slope to becoming authoritarian. When did "Vote Blue no matter who" turn into "Biden is our only hope"? The people questioning Bidens ability to win aren't thinking about switching their vote off the blue ticket, they're looking at the data that suggests even with the Democratic base voting blue, it won't be enough to defeat Trump and are trying to think about how to expand and energize support for Democratic ticket.

The fact is Biden has been even with Trump in national polls for months and has been losing in swing states. Trump's base isn't budging and based on the fact that Biden's abysmal debate performance didn't move the needle it's obvious that the Democratic base isn't budging either. So the only movement that is going to happen in this race are swing voters and enthusiasm.

If Biden is going to run, great, I'd love to see him fucking do it! Because if his campaign is gonna be up this once a week, tightly controlled appearance bullshit, he is absolutely going to lose and will moreover drag the house and Senate down with him. If he can't turn things around, it's time to let someone else do it.

It's true that we've never seen a party win that changed candidates this late in the election cycle, but it is equally true that an incumbent president that has an approval rating as low as Biden's has ever won reelection. If the Democratic party is going to win in November, one of those precedents is going to be broken; people are just trying to figure out which one will be easier to break.