this post was submitted on 08 Jun 2024
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[–] kevin@programming.dev 169 points 5 months ago (6 children)

We have seen this game 100 times. Opt in for now and then turned on for everyone 6-12 months later. It's just a temporary move to handle the bad PR.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 106 points 5 months ago (2 children)

You forgot the best part

Silently turned on via "security" update

[–] Ozonowsky@lemmy.world 63 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's a security update because it adds new security vulnerabilities.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 24 points 5 months ago

Same as it ever was

[–] WhoIsRich@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Or the other trick of constantly prompting "Turn on / Maybe Later" until people either accidentally accept or just give up to make nagging stop.

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[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.world 32 points 5 months ago (9 children)

registry switch that'll mysteriously reset itself. we've had this shit with countless windows configurations at work that our IT guy has to battle with on the regular.

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[–] gnuplusmatt@reddthat.com 80 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Opt-in does not matter, if I message or email someone who has it on, my personal data has been collected without my knowledge or consent.

This shouldnt have been built in the first place, it's irresponsible

[–] helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world 31 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

This raises an excellent point not considered. This goes for all texts as well if the other person uses the "your phone" app. Discord, matrix, signal, telegram etc are all compromised by this existing on a system.

Will my browser's "private mode" be respected or it is going to store every inappropriate thing I search?

Are password managers safe? How about bank security questions? How often are those actaully obfuscated. The last 4 digits of social security numbers are usually unobfuscated, which is also what a lot of intuitions (stupidly) use to verify your ID over the phone. What if I want to look at the PDF of my tax documents?

What if my HR manager has this enabled and starts viewing PDFs containing private information about employees, payroll data, finances and whatever else is sellable on the dark web.

How about govermnet data? Sure maybe the pentagon IT staff will completely block it, but what about local gov committee ABC that's collecting voter information?

That type of data is valuable enough that it will be targeted regardless of what protection MS attempts. Based on the fact they didnt bother encytping the data from the start, my faith is low.

The implications of this are insane.

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[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 57 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I maintain one baremetal Windows install that gets fairly regular use. It's on a major OEM business class workstation with a legit Windows 10 pro license.

Recently, I had to wipe and reset and goddamn do they try and trick you into choosing all the worst spyware settings AND even if you successfully duck and weave past them, they'll just cheat and enable them, or reinstall shit like co-pilot during an update.

They just made me sign into that shitty M365 app to install a legit subscription of Office, and on the next reboot, it converted the local user account into an online user account.

Make no mistake, Recall is going to be enabled by hook, or by crook, for the vast majority of Windows 11 users in due time. No matter how many times they disable it, or opt out.

[–] RustyShackleford@literature.cafe 22 points 5 months ago

Yup. We’re back to the old days where Microsoft didn’t give a damn and enabled things by default.

It’ll take less than a decade before they get sued, yet again. By then, the penalty will be <5% of what they’ve made, but the merry go round will circle back and start all over.

[–] Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world 39 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Too late Microsoft, I jumped into the Linux pool and the water is fine.

[–] ElvenMithril@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 5 months ago

Exactly. Running fedora desktop and I am thinking why the move does.not do more poeple. The only Microsoft junk I am using is the corporation laptop and that I am sure wont get this function.

[–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 38 points 5 months ago

"we will change nothing but announce it like we did"

[–] A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world 38 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Why the hell wasn't it opt-in from the beginning?

[–] random_character_a@lemmy.world 32 points 5 months ago

It'll be opt-in, till it isn't.

[–] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 20 points 5 months ago

For the same reason it used an unprotected DB. Because they don't give a shit about your privacy or security.

[–] Stanley_Pain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 5 months ago

I like daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaata

-- Microsoft

[–] fah_Q@lemmy.ca 36 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How about you promise to remove your build in spyware?

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 8 points 5 months ago

Musnt anger the shareholders

[–] chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de 35 points 5 months ago (2 children)

opt-in until next update when it will be enabled "magically"

[–] xavier666@lemm.ee 42 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Let me tell exactly what will happen.

  • Step 1 - It's opt-in. Everyone chill
  • Step 2 - It's opt-in but the opt-in button is advertised during startup
  • Step 3 - "opting in in crucial for your safety and comfort" advertised everytime during startup
  • Step 4 - it's opt-out now but it can be turned off in settings
  • Step 5 - it's opt-out but the off button is hidden below 3 layers
  • Step 6 - the opt-out button is gone but can be turned off with a registry edit
  • Step 7 - sorry, it's a core component of W11

We are currently at Step 1

This comment is taken from another lemmy post but I forgot the username. Apologies.

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

If you don't opt in you will miss essential security updates and you will become a terrorist

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago

I mean even if it is not mandatory but automatically enabled once, odds are %80 of the users won't even bother turning it off so win for windows in any case

[–] yggstyle@lemmy.world 35 points 5 months ago

As a reminder this was the go-to play for Facebook when they were caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Default it off until nobody's looking and change it slightly so it was named 'differently' and on it went again.

[–] Evilcoleslaw@lemmy.world 31 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I don't even care if it's opt-in. I don't want dormant malware on my PC either.

To be clear. I actually like Windows 11. I don't care about the general telemetry, though I disabled the typing data crap. Most of the things in the last few months about ads in Windows, about blocking apps, etc have been overblown and aren't actually big problems in isolation. Even this is a little overblown right now as it requires an NPU which the vast majority of systems don't have. But, this is just so tone-deaf and an obviously terrible idea that it needs to be put down hard.

[–] Rolando@lemmy.world 21 points 5 months ago

Yeah, they're so focused on screwing me over that I'm worried eventually I'll miss something.

[–] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 11 points 5 months ago

Most of the things in the last few months about ads in Windows, about blocking apps, etc have been overblown and aren't actually big problems in isolation.

Any telemetry sent without a very clearly informed opt in is malicious. Any ad in an OS is malicious. There is no valid justification for either.

[–] illi@lemm.ee 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

as it requires an NPU which the vast majority of systems don't have

Don't have at the time. I agree with you but argument that it's not an issue for many people right now will bite the majority eventually

[–] willington@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 5 months ago

I don't want *dormant* malware on my PC either.

"Why not?"

--Micro$oft, probably

[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 28 points 5 months ago (2 children)

They'll always play right on or just over the line to see when/how people push back. They knew what they were doing, they started at a 9 intentionally so that people push back to and live with a 7

[–] kellenoffdagrid@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 5 months ago (2 children)

MS really has always done this, what's the name for this kind of marketing maneuver? Manufactured consent? Manufactured begrudging tolerance?

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[–] NutWrench@lemmy.world 26 points 5 months ago

How do you "fix" the security issues of a program that is literally designed to spy on you?

I've just switched to Linux Mint and I'm not ever coming back. That's how I "fixed it."

[–] SomeGuy69@lemmy.world 24 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Opt-in but you get an annoying full screen popup every boot, like for the windows11 upgrade. It's only a matter of time, til they sell AI recall features as Win12 and then beg you to upgrade for free, pretty please!

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Or "(totally unrelated feature) is not available unless you activate AI recall. Click here to activate."

[–] Prandom_returns@lemm.ee 10 points 5 months ago

"Click cancel if you do not want to not activate it"

[–] dumblederp@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Trust is difficult to earn and easy to lose.

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[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)

There is no way I'm going to use a machine where they can turn on something remotely through a update or some other fashion. I probably won't even have a 11 vm at home now. I'll keep the 10 vm for its minor uses until it can no longer do the few things I use it for but that is it for me. Remove that garbage or lose more of us macroshaft.

[–] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It boggles the mind this isn't an external download you have to specifically navigate to their website to download and install. The fact it is soon to be on Win 11 systems, just a toggle away, is terrifying. Particularly since lots of people handle your personal data, while data collectors like this are on their machines (and many of those machines will have the collector turned on).

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago

security issues as in its very existence?

[–] bokherif@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago

It feels like these huge ass companies are just testing people's reactions before they do something these days.

[–] Ascend910@lemmy.ml 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

"Make it opt-in" (for 6 months) At this point, Microsoft is the biggest advisement for Linux desktop

[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago

Windows 10 will be the last windows I will use. Already switching to Linux at least part time to wean myself off of Microsoft

[–] Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 12 points 5 months ago

If somebody shows you who they really are, believe them the first time...

[–] RegalPotoo@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

My 10 year prediction - Microsoft does a full transition to a services company:

  • Basic Windows is free, even for OEMs
  • Windows Professional becomes a subscription thing, maybe you get it as part of your Azure AD sub
  • Things like Recall or not having ads are extra subscriptions
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[–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

Too little too late, I'm not getting any more versions of windows.

[–] blahsay@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago

Windows 10 will be the last I work on. I work in tech and won't accept 11 as a work environment either.

[–] archchan@lemmy.ml 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Pretty sure they already said it would be opt-in. This is just planned damage control. The fools have already shown their hand. Again.

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[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

So it will use AI to auto detect penises to prevent embarrassing video recordings.

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