this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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Holy fuck. I like Harry Potter and want to speak about it, so what? Because JK made a few announcements? Words do damage and I get that it's already hard being trans and she isn't helping. But acting like this is just building more walls, dividing an already fucked humankind for no good reason.
I respect anyone's choice to be trans, but then you'll have to let me discuss HP without judgement as well. And if you won't, then you're the problem. Because I will still respect anyone trans, but I won't respect you.
Seems like a pretty good to reason.
And choice to be trans? I dunno if it’s a choice anymore than I “choose” to love the same sex.
I don't mean you can't choose to stay clear of HP yourself. What I'm hinting at is that you can disassociate with a group without the drama. HP fans aren't all bigots, that's obvious right? I like Wagner's music, I'm not a fucking Nazi. It's such a weird hill to die on with everything going on.
It's not the point, and I hope you got that but just couldn't leave without slapping my wrist.
Yeah words matter. But thanks for clarifying it wasn't your point.
Nobody's gonna call you a Nazi for liking Wagner. But I will say you like Hitler's favorite musician and if you start hanging out with other Wagner enthusiasts, you might very well find yourself in the company of Nazis. Sure they aren't all Nazis, and I'm sure that if you were to find out some or most of them were , you'd rightly distance yourself from the group. Right?
My original argument isn't about the quality of the works in question, it's about whether it's okay to ignore the hateful rhetoric of JKR and the harm she causes trans people with said rhetoric, solely in the interest of creating and engaging in community around her work.
It's insensitive to a group already marginalized in societies at large because to form a community around HP inherently excludes them, not because trans people can't see the value in HP or it's literary quality, but because they can't disassociate the work from the author. JKR is a TERF, has helped spearhead a TERF movement amongst her accolades, targeting trans people specifically with hate speech, all within recent memory.
Additionally, Wagner, while a controversial figure as Hitler's favorite musician, was never explicitly anti-semitic. The same cannot be said of JK Rowling and her transphobic rhetoric. So the comparison isn't quite as astute as you might believe it to be.
"choice to be trans"
Well there you go, transphobia pretending to disguise itself. Go ahead and try to justify your wording, you've already lost plenty of people's respect. Of course if that "doesn't matter" to you, you probably shouldn't have brought it up.
Sure, the human race is particularly divided right now, but trying to create a fan group around a brand founded by an outspoken outright TERF who has done real harm to a marginalized group deserves to be called out for what it is: a group willing to turn a blind eye to hate speech.
Saying we can somehow separate the good the work has done for some people, from the harm the author has done to the specific minority of trans people, is naive at best, and sympathizing with bigotry at worst.
Think about the community you're trying to create. It is inherently anti-trans, by the very nature of it's association with the author.
But hey, if that's the kind of company you'd like to keep, then at least we all know who you like to associate with.
It's not inherently anti-trans. How can you say that, can't you see what OP wrote? And then you're trying to put a stample on me for not being a good enough supporter of the cause, so bring out the guillotines! Sometimes I feel like the trans communities greatest enemy is it's strongest proponents.
You can't speak for every trans person, neither can I. But if you think no one trans likes HP, or think that if someone trans likes HP they aren't really trans, then you can fuck right off. And if that's not what you're saying, then let it be?
People are weird, let them. If they aren't actively trashing other people they aren't doing harm. Stop being upset about things no one's yet to do to you. You just come of as an leftist incel.
in my friend groups, quite a few people are binging hogwarts legacy at the moment.
most of them are trans. nobody is outraged. they just have jk blocked on twitter. they're still potter fans.
there's an obsessive hate in a lot of trans communities that nobody talks about. the "you like this book series so you're a terf!" type mentality is really tiresome.
Its not lost on trans activists that trans people themselves can engage in the same type of careless behavior that results in the support of bigotry.
If they enjoy HP, that's fine, but to deny that positive discourse around the franchise supports JKR and subtly and overtly, as well as reinforces her bigotry, is naive.
There are plenty of people who are willing to do the easy thing even if it ends up being harmful to themselves and others. Trans people are no exception to this kind of behavior.
It's not like I haven't encountered abrasive trans people, but oftentimes their anger and resentment comes from a place that is completely understandable. They often have to put so much of their grievances aside to assuage the masses because otherwise they are immediately villified, even amongst those that are supposed to be their supporters.
I personally don't have much respect for those that are willing to turn a blind eye to the harm others obviously do just to go support them directly or indirectly for the sake of enjoying a piece of somewhat entertaining content.
The discomfort of seeing trans people getting angry about this shouldn't inherently mean whoever brought up the grievance in a vehement manner ia immediately in the wrong. Sure, maybe they were a jerk about expressing it, but it doesn't mean they were wrong. And dancing around it trying to be nice about the ”seeing both sides of the story" disxourse has proven ineffective at changing the discourse, so yeah, people are emptional and human and get frustrated when they dont feel heard, so they shout.
They know it won't help, but what other option have you left them then? You've proven with your words, silence, actions, and inactions, that ultimately you don't stand with them. You stand with HP, and as uncomfortable a truth as it is that you all refuse to acknowledge, you stand with JKR.
amazing. the very first line told me everything I need to know about what kind of person you really are.
"those trans people don't act the same way as me, so they're obviously wrong."
grow up, man. not everyone is going to agree with your weird victim-obsessed ideals.
Not a quote. You're intentionally misinterpreting what I posted. I'll just keave this here for you to read again because you obviously would rather engage in throwing hot garbage around than produce a valid counterpoint.
My original post again was:
If they enjoy HP, that's fine, but to deny that positive discourse around the franchise supports JKR and subtly and overtly, as well as reinforces her bigotry, is naive.
There are plenty of people who are willing to do the easy thing even if it ends up being harmful to themselves and others. Trans people are no exception to this kind of behavior.
It's not like I haven't encountered abrasive trans people, but oftentimes their anger and resentment comes from a place that is completely understandable. They often have to put so much of their grievances aside to assuage the masses because otherwise they are immediately villified, even amongst those that are supposed to be their supporters.
I personally don't have much respect for those that are willing to turn a blind eye to the harm others obviously do just to go support them directly or indirectly for the sake of enjoying a piece of somewhat entertaining content.
The discomfort of seeing trans people getting angry about this shouldn't inherently mean whoever brought up the grievance in a vehement manner ia immediately in the wrong. Sure, maybe they were a jerk about expressing it, but it doesn't mean they were wrong. And dancing around it trying to be nice about the ”seeing both sides of the story" disxourse has proven ineffective at changing the discourse, so yeah, people are emptional and human and get frustrated when they dont feel heard, so they shout.
They know it won't help, but what other option have you left them then? You've proven with your words, silence, actions, and inactions, that ultimately you don't stand with them. You stand with HP, and as uncomfortable a truth as it is that you all refuse to acknowledge, you stand with JKR.
I'm somehow failing to find your misquote within my original post. Could you please point out which line has this hot garbage?:
Cuz nowhere did I even indicate this. I don't want them to think the same as me. I'm expressing my opinion that you obviously disagree with. But to misquote me is petty and pointless. Either present a valid counterpoint or take your ball and go home.
Sorry, but no. You can sit by the sidelines and cause harm. It's been done many times over throughout history, and sadly I'm sure we'll see it again. I'm literally witnessing a bunch of people ignore the plight of a marginalized group right here, right now.
I'm calling it out because it's exactly that. It's literally the least amount of effort I can put in while still doing what I think is right, not fucking nothing, and certainly not engaging in a community that is transphobe adjacent.
Again, company you keep reflects on you, ignoring a problem can be just as harmful as actively causing harm under certain circumstances.
Are these those specific circumstances? Maybe not. But I'll be damned if I don't call out indifference to suffering when I see it, which is exactly what this is.
I'm not speaking for all trans people. I'm speaking for me. It's the internet, try and stop me. If any person, trans or otherwise, wants to engage with me and argue why I'm wrong and presents a solid argument, I'd be more than happy to hear it.
But so far, all I'm hearing is a bunch of pearl clutching rhetoric dancing around the fact that to support HP in any way shape or form can only help JKR, and by proxy, her transphobic agenda. If that's what you all want to do, then go ahead. But don't pretend that's not what's happening.
I get it, you think you're doing good, I'd ask you to reconsider that. You're claiming someone is doing something no one has even considered yet. Judge the result, not your idea of what they're trying to do. You're painting a monster no one else sees.
I won't answer your second post to me since it wasn't targeted at you, and I'm lazy.
Yeah. That wait and see approach hasn't usually worked out for minorities...
No. I'm pointing out that due to nostalgia and a desire for community, HP fans willing to turn a blind eye to the hateful rhetoric of JKR are engaging with transphobic communities, even if the community rules attempts to discourage outright hate speech. If you can't see how that's harmful, you're blind.
Fair enough, though I'm happy to engage in discourse on that point as well.