this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
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[–] GFGJewbacca@lemm.ee 117 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Lawyers for the 14-year-old and her parents say that American “knew or should have known the flight attendant was a danger.” They say the failure of other crew members to confiscate the employee's phone allowed him to destroy evidence.

Well that's pretty damning. Makes me wonder how many other times this flight attendant has done this.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 59 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Tf?

Do you see that image, look how fucking visible the flash is and it’s in the dead centre of the seat. No way a 14 year old would not see that giant arse phone stickers to the lid.

Also

The family said an FBI agent later told the girl’s mother they did not arrest the man because they did not find any incriminating images on his phone.

Innocent until proven guilty, and allegedly he’s been cleared by the FBI. Yet you’re here acting like he’s guilty, has a history of this, and should never have been hired.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago

Ummmm Was that an employee's phone taped to the toilet seat? Criminals being unbelievably bad at crime is not a defense. The FBI can't arrest somebody without evidence, but nobody is claiming that they didn't tape a phone to a toilet seat.

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 33 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Of course! Let's consider the following extremely reasonable options:

  • The attendant accidentally left his phone in the bathroom (with the flash on, or no passcode so a malicious 14 yo could turn it on). Kid goes in the bathroom and hatches a plot. Peels the sticker perfectly off broken seat lid, attaches the phone, and takes a picture of it.

  • Same as above, but the girl finds a pad of the stickers and a sharpie also left on the bathroom, thereby removing the need to peel. OR she carries her own pad of the united broken stickers and a sharpie.

  • The kid pickpockets his phone on the way by and either of the options above. Roll for dexterity!

  • The bathroom was so dark at the start of the flight, our good Samaritan flight attendant tapes a phone with the light on under a broken sticker (even though it's fine to use) and writes seat broken on it just so everyone is aware anyway. Everyone can now see and doesn't fall in.

All completely sane and reasonable alternatives to assuming an unnamed individual (who is not getting publicly maligned because he's unidentified) was trying to add kiddie fun bits to his spank bank.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 17 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Or it’s a parents phone, staged for a photo being why nothing was found on the accused’s, not that anything was ever taken.

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In which case there is no traction for police or anyone else and this doesn't become an article. Flight attendant says "no my phone is right here" and it's all done. This theory doesn't hold water.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social -2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You mean like how they let him go after checking it wasn’t him?

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's not what the article says. It says 1) they didn't confiscate the phone after the incident, and 2) there were no pictures when they later checked.

He was not detained because there were no pictures on the phone. Luckily there is no feature in a phone that lets you remove videos or photos once taken, otherwise his innocence beyond reasonable doubt might be questioned.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Mate.

Deleting a photo off your phone does not wipe the data, they can recover that in seconds after plugging your phone in and copying all the data which is frequently done at airports.

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would agree with you except it says the father was shown no pictures and later that the FBI didn't arrest him. What it doesn't say is the duration in between dad and FBI. There is not some permanent record of deleted files in your iPhone if you keep using it and it's not confiscated. It doesn't read like authorities picked the FA up at the stop, but more like this is a protracted dispute.

Even if no pictures in the first place it's still suspicious AF and the sort of thing I would expect to receive a special visit by Chris Hansen.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No.

It is not suspicious at, the accused has done literally nothing wrong.

All they have is a claim leveled against them with nothing to support it.

Stop judging innocent people based on nothing.

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Circumstantial evidence is not nothing dude.

  • Directs young girl to different bathroom
  • In bathroom first
  • His phone in the bathroom
  • Photographic evidence of said phone in a compromising position.

This is all evidence. There's no refutation in the article. The only thing that is not there is some direct indicator of intent. It was enough to warrant a phone search and to dismiss him from work, and a clean search doesn't mean dick by itself because intent to snag this kind of photo is also a punishable offence:

18 U.S. Code § 2251 - Sexual exploitation of children See section (e)

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So what if there’s no refutation in the article?

Do you expect the journalist ever got a chance to speak to the attendant?

When they rang the company to speak to them about the incident what is more likely “Oh yeah sure I’ll transfer you over to him have a nice chat” or “We here at Flight Company take all matters very seriously and will look into the matter”?

Why do you assume because this article is one sided hearsay, that it must be the truth and journalists investigated every angle so a lack of mention is an omission of guilt?

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

I expect that people are basically good and that nobody is out to frame this person. The fact that they are not named makes it much easier to discuss the situation on the merits and is the only reason I'm commenting. It's not like this is some rag news site and anything that the girl or the FA write is necessarily hearsay since airlines don't have bathroom cams. There is no reasonable "other side" I can conceive which would also play the role of reasonable doubt.

More to the point, the case doesn't have to be solved beyond a reasonable doubt to investigate in the first place, or to report on. If AP News named him I would also take issue, but that isn't the case right now.

Why defend a faceless story to a fault?

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If you read the article, it seems the phone was most definitely the flight attendants.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social -2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No it does not.

Quote me exactly where it says anything remotely close to this.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"Lawyers for the family suggested that the flight attendant removed the phone and erased images of the girl before letting her father see his iPhone photos."

There's another spot as well mentioning the father taking the phone from him, but some crap ad is keeping the text covered up. So yes. It says the guy got the phone back and then the dad demanded to see his pictures on his phone.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social -2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So a theory.

Lawyers presented a theory for why no images were found, and you take that as evidence?

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Jesus christ, man. The article literally says he made the Steward show the pictures on his phone. Did you fail reading comprehension back in grade school?

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social -2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Lawyers for the family suggested that the flight attendant removed the phone and erased images of the girl before letting her father see his iPhone photos.

That does not say the phone was most definitely his in any way, shape, or form.

For all you know the father demanded to look at his phone, he let him, the father found nothing and claimed he must've taken the phone back and deleted the photos. That does not prove fucking shit, it's one sides story that is so far not backed up by any evidence.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You wanted the quote from the article. I gave you the quote from the article. Don't go claiming "well the article might not be true" yadda yadda yadda. Don't go changing the argument to something else after I showed you that you were wrong, dumbass.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, you gave me a quote that doesn’t back-up your claim.

If you read the article, it seems the phone was most definitely the flight attendants.

If you read the article, the only link between the phone in the seat and the one in the attendants position is the suggestion of a third party lawyer.

No where is a definitive claim laid out that they are the same phone.

Is it so hard for you people to stop trying to ruin innocent people’s lives with your witch hunt?

[–] wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The guys phone was taped to the seat, thats not even being questioned

The only thing in question is if there were photos on the phone that was taped to the seat, a phone which he said belongs to him.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Who do you expect to question it?

Who else has the journalist spoken to other than comments from the family’s lawyer?

[–] wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The guy being accused.

If it wasnt his phone, he would immediately clear himself by saying "hey boss, my phone is right here in my hand, the kid is lying about that being my phone, mine was never in that bathroom."

The phone was, as reported by the FBI, given back to the man being accused before they asked him to let them look at the photo gallery.

If it wasnt his phone, they wouldnt have given it to him in the first place. Very easy way to clear his name, when the girl accused him on the plane.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

How do you know that’s not what happened?!

You are literally taking one sides story at face value and using the lack of something being reported as damning evidence.

And it was not reported by the fucking FBI, it was the family that said the FBI cleared him. The FBI has announced nothing and you believe they have because you’re trying to justify blaming an innocent person.

[–] wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

....... Because the guy was removed from working, and american airlines wouldnt let people openly think they hired a pedophile if they immediately proved he wasnt a pedophile on the plane?

Think that through for a second dude, why would the company risk their name being dragged through the mud in a lawsuit if, while the plane was literally still in the air, multiple eye witnesses could confirm and corroberate that the accused employee immediately showed that his phone had not entered the bathroom?

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Anyone would be stood down from the job after an allegation like that. It’s standard practice, it means nothing.

Think about man, why would a company risk talking about an ongoing legal case with the media. They send them the canned statement “we take this seriously blah blah blah” and that’s it.

You think the P.R. Team has more sway than the companies law firm?

Just because something was not said, does not mean it’s because it must be true.

[–] wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 1 points 11 months ago

They wouldnt talk to the media at all, they would kill this dead and deader before the kid or her dad could talk to a lawyer.

You arent understanding what I am saying. You are claiming that this man is being framed by either the girl, or her dad, for some alterior motive. If he could immediately prove the phone wasnt his, and that he was being set up, the airline would pull so many legal strings around their neck they wouldnt even risk making this into news.

Like. You grok what happens if this is proven false, yes? The airline will legally destroy this family for risking their name becoming the pedo plane people. They do not want this news article to exist. They have already lost major ground because this exists.

If they could have killed this before the public learned about it, they would. If they could prove the man was innocent, they would have made the girls lawyer understand this was a losing battle. And by losing, I mean losing money.

The fact that the lawyer took it to the news implies that they dont have much evidence to go on, and want a ton of public pressure on the airline. Probably for a data scrub of the phone. But the fact that they were capable of taking it to the news means the airline couldnt prove innocence and nip this in the bud.

[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That one would be easily refuted by the other flight attendents since the complaint claims he was given his phone back. One assumes no one is refuting his phone was in the bathroom at least.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social -2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

And did anyone ask them to back up the claim for the news article?

We don’t even have one sides story let alone others involved in it.

[–] MNByChoice@midwest.social 13 points 11 months ago

Seems to be a civil lawsuit, so the standards are different. The investigation is also ongoing. Obtaining the photos is unlikely the only crime. Attempting to obtain the photos is also likely a crime. The FBI agent is not the judge of what is our is not illegal.

The flight attendant was not identified. They are not getting paid, but that is fully different than being punished for a crime (still has a negative impact on them.)

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Ah, about destroying evidence - last I checked, it's not as simple as just deleting stuff. So (if investigators get their hands on the actual phone, if they get a decent digital forensics expert, if Apple cooperates maybe) there'll be evidence of both the root crime and the crime of trying to conceal it.