this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023
335 points (92.8% liked)

politics

19072 readers
4191 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday he doesn’t know that a ceasefire is possible in the Israel-Hamas war with “an organization like Hamas” involved.

“I don’t know how you can have a ceasefire, (a) permanent ceasefire, with an organization like Hamas, which is dedicated to turmoil and chaos and destroying the state of Israel,” Sanders told CNN’s Dana Bash on “State of the Union” Sunday.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.world 125 points 1 year ago (109 children)

I don't think peace is possible when one side is holding the other in an open air prison and giving them only the amount of calories needed to not die (after the war started even that was suspended)

[–] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 69 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Stop calling it a prison, prisons are for convicted criminals, Palestinian's only crime is being Palestinian. These were open air concentration camps, they are now open air extermination camps

[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

prisons are for convicted criminals,

Always?

[–] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No one said the conviction is justified, but yes, convicted.

[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)
[–] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

A torture camp with no blanket constitutional protections

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

“Uh it’s just a building with rooms you can’t leave. But it’s not a prison”

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Have you ever seen Gaza? I thought it looked more like a city.

Is "open air concentration camps" now a code word for dense urban city?

image

Honestly this looks like a pretty nice city to me.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

It is when trying to leave gets you opened up on by the Israeli air force.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

No, a prison is just a facility designed to keep people inside against their will.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 45 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Does that change anything?

Hamas is a terrorist organization with strong ties to Iran. We've already seen what happens when terrorist groups destabilize countries and take control. Syria is an ongoing testament to that. So is Afghanistan

Are the Israeli Government's sins the reason why Hamas is in power? The extent is arguable, but it would be a lie to outright say "no".

But... does that change anything?

Hamas is the power in Gaza. Any form of concessions that don't involve the destruction of Hamas will be considered a win because the Palestinian people have been held in an open air prison for decades. And that will just lead to Hamas becoming more powerful.

If someone was abused horrifically as a child and decided to get a gun and take it out on others, what do you do? In a just world, you get them the help that they need. But in any world, the first thing you do is take the gun away before they can hurt anyone else.

What that means in this situation? I don't know. Short of external military intervention, the Israeli government is not going to stand down. And I for one don't want the US and NATO to fuck around in yet another middle eastern country for another two decades only to leave it considerably worse than we found it.

[–] NewDark@lemmings.world 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You realize Israel is controlling the prison in reality, right?

Hamas doesn't shoot Palestinians that go to far off the coast, Israel does.

Hamas didn't erect a huge border wall around Gaza, Israel did.

Hamas doesn't control the supply of food, water, and goods into Gaza. Israel does.

Who controls Gaza?

[–] bustrpoindextr@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (10 children)

WRT the wall at least:

Hamas's goal from securing power in 2007 has been rejecting the two state solution and destroying Israel leading to many many attacks since then so, maybe securing the border isn't an insane idea? I mean, fuck all good the wall did recently but still.

Hamas doesn't control the supply of food, water, and goods into Gaza. Israel does.

Slightly amend that one, Egypt also supports the blockade. That being said, it's not the fault of all the civilians in Gaza that people voted in 2007 to let a terrorist organization take over and things went poorly because of it. This blockade needs to end. Humanitarian aid needs to be able to get to Gaza.

[–] NewDark@lemmings.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not going to get fully bogged down in the semantics, but Israel still basically controls the Egypt border.

The US forced a vote, didn't like the outcome, attempted to coup Hamas, and failed. Also, if Hamas is so bad (which they are in many respects), why does Israel fund them and explicitly has a policy of only interacting with them as being the legitimate government?

Easy, they want an unsympathetic enemy that does not want peace. They want to continue the project of taking the rest of Israel for the ethnostate.

[–] Anamnesis@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm overall on board for this comment but how does Israel find Hamas?

[–] NewDark@lemmings.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You missed half the article.

Correct on funding, with the aim to provide a glimpse of a better life and work permits - for its people, not the organization in control.

I do find in interesting that there is a thing on Israel funding Hamas while at the same time issues that Israel stopped providing power and food.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] conquer4@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

At least for #2, you might want to do more research into why hamas doesn't have prisons in Gaza..

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

How about we start by defunding Israel, followed by sanctions?

load more comments (9 replies)
load more comments (107 replies)