this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
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Linux
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
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$1400 for a non upgradable SSD and RAM, not to mention there are no USB, HDMI or audio jacks. What a ripoff.
For 1400 bucks you can get a really nice Framework Laptop. And when it breaks, you don't have to spend 1400 on a new one or 2000 on a overpriced repair that can only be performed by the manufacturer, you can actually repair everything yourself!
Or you can get like 2 good thinkpads
Or 1000+ bananas
Modern ThinkPads are hard to repair and can't really be upgraded and older ones don't have good performance or battery life.
If the last good Thinkpads were made by IBM, you can get a lot more than 2 for $1400.
Sure, but the performance and battery life will be terrible. I don't think that buying old laptops solves the problems we have with most new ones. Buying something like a Framework Laptop instead of some Dell or Apple garbage actively supports a pro-right-to-repair company and you also get a really nice laptop with good performance, battery life, upgradability, reparability and customizability.
Bought an old second hand p50 recently, and it still far outperforms most modern laptops by a mile, battery lasts 4 or 5 hours on integrated graphics (probably quite a bit less on discrete but haven't really tested that yet)
Plus I can buy a second battery and just swap them out when one runs out
What modern laptops does the P50 outperform? It has a 6th Generation Intel CPU...
My old Lenovo yoga cost more than the p50 and couldn't hold a candle
Came with 32gb memory, 4k display, discrete gpu and an nvme which all help considerably, the CPU generally sits around 1-8% during normal usage (on Linux that is)
Can quite happily code on this thing, my previous laptop could barely run an ide
Obviously there are more powerful laptops but considering I got it for ~£500 and even second hand modern laptops go for ~1000 with less memory and no GPU I think it competes very nicely
The Lenovo Yoga line is essentially the PC version of 2017-2020 MacBooks, thin, light, loud and hot with terrible performance. Even my toaster would outperform one of those. These are "Ultrabooks", not real laptops. It's a shame that they are calling some of these pieces of shit ThinkPads, but most other modern ThinkPads also suck. Quite sad how the ThinkPad brand has been ruined by Lenovo. Nowadays, I'd even take an ARM MacBook over a ThinkPad. The P50 was probably one of the last good ones, but it's kinda outdated now. I've been really happy with my 13" Framework with the Ryzen 7 7840U, 32GB of RAM and a nice NVMe SSD running Gentoo. And I know that I can repair or upgrade almost everything on this laptop.
Light ThinkPads are not cheap either
Todays ThinPads are not superior. Some things are:
or a Starbook
which has coreboot, repair guides, and a very generous warranty
Ugh, can you order it without a fingerprint reader built into the trackpad?
These are cool. I love the concept.
I recommended my father get one after his current laptop's speakers blew out. He didn't want to wait for Q4, so we went with my 2nd recommendation, a ThinkPad.
The first two were defective (the whole model line is - overheating to scalding temps, not going to sleep when the lid is closed, not sleeping/infinite loop when manually told to sleep or by the OS idle time), the third (different model) arrived without a fucking w11pro product key. Are you actually fucking shitting me. Their solution for that was either a new machine (custom machine, almost 4 weeks lead time) or a new mobo. I figured they would put the key in the board, and we didn't want another 4 week wait, so I went with the board swap. Guess who didn't enter a key into the bios? The tech didn't have one, was just told to swap boards.
We are expecting a framework in Q1 now.
Even apple's most io-limited macbook ever had a headphone jack. Dell is really trying to outperform them.
Project Sputnik didn't start yesterday. It started in 2013 and Dell XPS was much different back then.
Dell love pretending they're the Apple of the Windows/Linux world, except the issue is that for one, people specifically bought their stuff for the things you mentioned, and that the build quality was not exclusively just black plastic. The current XPS is everything that people hated about the "Macbook" from almost a decade ago. The one with the first butterfly switches
Oh no, I see the mistake, just let me
there we go
Yeah, I don't get it. What am I gonna do with 2 USBC ports? What if the ssd dies? Nah, I'd rather get a framework
The framework is cheaper when comparably equipped. It's not even any thicker or heavier despite everything being replaceable. Dell just wants to make you pay a huge repair fee when the SSD fails.
Is it supposed to be submersible? WTF no jacks or ports?
Non upgradable SSD & RAM?
So Dell is trying to out-stupid Apple. Maybe they'll come out with their own maps.
linux users when a laptop that ships Linux isn't absolutely perfect and cost $20 (they don't care that it helps get linux to average users)
We are pretty happy with framework, tuxedo and system76 even if their products often cost loads of money and for sure aren't perfect.
and yet people still find ways to complain when a manufacturer that is twice as big as all of these examples combined ships laptops with linux to the hands of millions of people, most of the time costing less than offerings by these companies
Soldered SSD and RAM is something we expect from a cheap chromebook. It's just not acceptable in a high end laptop.
There are plenty of other good laptops that come with Linux installed.
including, *checks notes*, ah yes... most of DELL's other offerings with linux pre-installed
Which give you no option to forgo the Windows license.
Is it something that depends on the region? In Brazil their Linux offerings are usually way cheaper precisely because you can forgo the Windows license.
I came here to disagree with you, but in thinking a little about it, I'm not sure I do.
I find the lack of ports and upgradability extremely problematic. And while I understand they're supposed to be light, slim, quality laptops, the price point feels high even so.
But, these are personal gripes with the device. And nothing to do with Linux. But these are basically the same things Apple aims for and people seem to love that.
So, I might argue the price doesn't make it reasonable for the average user. But otherwise the more devices with Linux pre-installed, the better.