this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/22241305

Jessica Corbett
Nov 06, 2024

"While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change," said the Vermont Independent. "And they're right."

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Unfortunately, Bernie fought tooth and nail for this status quo over the last 4 years. I agree with the sentiment, the Dems have to go, but Bernie is acting as a sheepdog.

[–] 5C5C5C@programming.dev 14 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Or he's a pragmatist who is concerned with both harm reduction and the likely reality that the only takeaway that Democrats will ever have from losing an election to someone right wing is that Democrats need to go even further to the right to win.

If leftists give the impression that nothing will ever be good enough for them then

  1. Democrats have no incentive to court the left
  2. Democrats have no estimate for how many votes they would even be able to pick up from the left relative to how far left they might try to reach

I personally believe that if the Democrats had taken on a progressive populist anti-genocide platform they would have won the election handsomely, but I am left with no way to empirically prove that to anyone because so many leftists opt out of voting entirely.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's not pragmatic to lose, for what it's worth. We know that reform is impossible, and Bernie likely knows too. You're correct that had the Democrats run on a progressive anti-genocide Social Democratic platform, they would have won, but that's not what their donors want and need.

Marxism is vindicated by the passage of time.

[–] 5C5C5C@programming.dev 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The "reform is impossible" is a self-fulfilling prophesy because it leads leftists to never try to get involved in the party, which means they'll never get a seat at the table, which means they'll never be able to steer the party.

I certainly can't prove that the influence of big money can ever be overcome within the party by grassroots organization, but you also can't prove that it's impossible (you can only prove that it's difficult, which is something I certainly won't dispute).

You certainly can't prove that a true socialist movement will ever gain traction in America. It seems like the general public is so brainwashed they would rather be indentured servants of large corporations than lift a single finger to seize the means of production.

So we're left with two unprovable paths to consider, and here's the thing: the two paths are not mutually exclusive. Leftists can try both at the same time with neither being disruptive to the other. So this is the pragmatism: consider all possibilities and put the eggs into more than one basket.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 week ago

Leftists cannot practice Entryism in the Democratic Party, due to its structure. The DNC is a machine used to filter out radicals and protect pro-establishment politicians that secure the funding from donors the DNC needs to exist. It is not a Leftist Party, and cannot be a Leftist Party.

Secondly, the concept of "brainwashing" is flawed. The ideas people find acceptable are determined by their social consciousness, as Capitalism deteriorates and Imperialism begins to crack, workers are increasingly turned towards organization and revolutionary Socialism.

I highly recommend reading Reform or Revolution by Rosa Luxemburg, she put to pen why reform is a sisyphean task. Reading theory really needs to be taken more seriously.

[–] BurningRiver@beehaw.org 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Are the donors really going to stick around if the Dems get plastered every election (if there is another one) and never win anything? One of three things will happen, to wit.

  1. nothing changes and the Democratic Party is toothless, useless and abandoned.
  2. The working populace starts a new leftist party and the Democratic Party is dead.
  3. the DNC pushes further left and wins back some votes

I think #3 is the least likely to happen. Although in the near future I think it doesn’t matter at all, because we’ve sunk into the mid to late 1930’s Germany. I hope our allies in Europe is prepared to move forward without our support.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

Their donors keep donating so they stay a right-wing party, they would rather the Dems lose as right wingers than win as more progressive.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago

It is not harm reduction to support genocidal neoliberals. It is not pragmatic to contradict all of your stated ideals to go to bat for them, give them your donor lists for a song and fail to do any movement building whatsoever.

Stop defending these losers.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 1 points 1 week ago

I think a lot of people are irrationally scared of "socialism" and "handouts". If a party was like "we're going to take some of the ultra wealthy's stuff and use it to build free housing, health care, transit, and public spaces" they'd be like "no that's communism I'd rather live in a box eating lead paint than get a government handout"

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago

He's been vocally outspoken against it for 50+ years! WTF are you talking about?