this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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I was gonna title this "And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price you have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice" and then write "Stuck inside of America with the fascism blues again" here, but I'm not sure if that comes off like gloating and that's honestly the last thing I want to do this morning.

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[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 45 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (3 children)

Swinging left wouldn't have worked either.

There is no high horse. There is no right path. Us Americans have the critical thinking skill of an ant. The left should have fought dirty with a full blown propaganda machine, populist lies, and blatant collusion if they wanted to win, simple as that.

It needs a leftist Trump.

What are Republican's gonna do... demonize democrats even more?

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 124 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

Swinging left wouldn’t have worked either.

It absolutely would have. Progressive policy is insanely popular and easy to campaign on by virtue of being designed to help everyone. Do you think Bernie had such high favorably ratings because they have a thing for 80 year old white dudes?

Tell people "healthcare will be free" or "We will cap rent and build housing that won't cost more than 3x local median income" and then people can't afford not to vote for you.

Biden could have cut off arms to Israel, and hundreds of thousands of students so politically activated they're willing to risk their degrees to protest would be doing everything in their power to keep Trump out.

Instead they sent the police to kick the shit out of those kids, at great expense to the colleges, and called them antisemitic.

[–] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Why then do countries with existing left parties and proportional representation elect further and further right-wing parties in Europe?

It's simple: They promise easy solutions for complicated problems. Banning immigration will fix all crime and the economy, opposing LGBTQ+ rights will ensure a return of the better olden days, climate change is nothing to be worried about etc etc

And even people depending on social support will gladly shoot themselves in their feet if it means someone else will have it worse.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

Why then do countries with existing left parties and proportional representation elect further and further right-wing parties in Europe?

Obviously they haven't gone far left enough. /s

Some people want easy solutions. Not unlike Trump voters.

[–] yeahiknow3@lemmings.world 0 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

I’m afraid exit polls say otherwise. Kamala’s economic policies were the most left wing we’ve seen in decades (a wealth tax?). If people cared about actual economic issues, such as inequality, they’d have elected her.

This election was lost because Latino men voted for Trump (for starters). We needed populism, not progressivism, to appeal to the small minded American voter. Don’t you see that? Most American men are misogynistic, racist psychos. And they’re unhappy. You appeal to them with populism full stop.

[–] yogurt@lemm.ee 16 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Wealth tax to collect more money to give to Israel and the most lethal military and killing immigrants is what she ran on, she ran as a right wing populist and lost because Trump is a better right wing populist

Small minded voters are told what to think, Harris refused to tell them to want free healthcare because that shit pisses off donors

[–] yeahiknow3@lemmings.world -5 points 18 hours ago (1 children)
[–] yogurt@lemm.ee 12 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, Democrats don't know how politics works, they ask Republicans to decide which issues are important, and then argue a slightly more moderate response to those issues is best. Sometimes they accidentally win doing that, if the economy is good and people are happy with moderation, but that's probably not going to be true any time soon.

[–] Moneo@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

they ask Republicans to decide which issues are important

I love this. They are so reactionary and seem almost incapable of counter messaging. I say almost because they managed it once with the tarrifs are sales tax response.

[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 6 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I'm not going to say that the Latino shift isn't huge, but this really feels like a strawman (to a certain extent). Even without the full 2024 turnout numbers, we know less people turned out to vote than 2020. I think NBC last night said Harris was projected to have 15 million less votes than Biden, and Trump voter numbers were steady, so I don't think it all went to Trump.

There are multiple factors that went into the outcome we have today, and only mentioning the Latino men or the pro-Palestine constituents and ignoring the failures of the DNC (starting with not having a convention) feels really weird.

[–] yeahiknow3@lemmings.world 8 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

The Latino men are one example. My point is that Democrats focused on policy and policy is ineffective when the electorate is a bunch of barely sentient macho dipshits angry about economic issues they can’t understand (not to mention most young men are broke and can’t get laid). You use populism. You blame the rich. You blame the wealthy elites. You channel Bernie Sanders.

Every other sentence out of Harris’s mouth should have been about the billionaires stealing from the working class. Instead we saw a bunch of well reasoned economic policy that went completely over everyone’s head.

[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 8 points 17 hours ago

Ok, I see your point. You're not wrong here. But I'm always surprised at how averse US politicians are to anything perceived as left wing populism, while they tolerate (or even eat up) the right wing version.

Maybe it's a remnant of McCarthyism.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 26 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

They don't need to lie, they just need to get better at being direct and stip pulling punches or taking the high road to avoid offending moderates or whatever their stupid logic is.

Instead of cozying up to Cheney, just call Trump a felon constantly, remind people about how he put migrants in cages and is now using durect nazi rhetoric against them. Those aren't lies, and they jind of half assed brought them up, but they need to actually lean in hard and constantly.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 11 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (2 children)

They did call him a felon constantly! They plastered everything he says in every outlet, screamed his threats at the top of their lungs.

No one cares!

That doesn't get you in people's facebook, tiktok, and youtube feeds.

Dems need a candidate who's already famous. They need one totally unchained, unhinged, who would say awful but barely not illegal things in public, so they're plastered on every news outlet constantly. They need someone who's a little iffy about vaccines, who will print money and send people fat checks with their face stamped on it, who will straight up collude with the powerful in public, so calling it out does nothing.

They need a liberal Trump.

I'm not sure who it would be... maybe a big pop star that kinda loses their marbles? Think Taylor Swift. But the dems are not going to win a Trumpist election running someone like Bidden, Harris, Bernie, AoC or whatever.

[–] turddle@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

Don’t think it has to explicitly be a shitty person but the Left definitely needs to realize it’s a popularity contest. Charisma and moxie win it cuz voters want it simple.

Look how FDR swept Hoover. Went around promising Happy Days are Here Again and he’ll whip the government into fixing the individual’s problems. Blasted his aura on the radio and newsreels which kept voters’ eyes on him. Then kept them for 3 more terms by saying fuck the red tape and making tangible things happen (which is probably what drives people to Trump despite the different results)

People want to back the cool guy who tells em it’ll be alright. Simple as

[–] NuclearDolphin@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)
[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

But I don't know who that is, lol. Not until now.

[–] NuclearDolphin@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 hours ago

Dems need a candidate who's already famous. They need one totally unchained, unhinged, who would say awful but barely not illegal things in public, so they're plastered on every news outlet constantly.

They need a liberal Trump.

What chuds like about Trump is that he jokes around and appears to be passionate about what he talks about, and instead of backing down when challenged, will face it head on and double down. Someone who will spit in the face of his enemies without apologizing after. Get anyone who can riff and mock their enemies while standing firm on their positions.

They need someone who's a little iffy about vaccines, who will print money and send people fat checks with their face stamped on it, who will straight up collude with the powerful in public, so calling it out does nothing.

I dont think they actually like any of this, just the way he does it inspires confidence. They care very little about the actual policy specifics.

That's all they really want is confidence. They aren't confident in their place within a changing world and want someone who exudes that confidence so they can delegate their trust to someone who has it where they have none.

I only said Hasan because he's funny, comfortable being an asshole, confident, and isn't a pushover.

[–] blaue_Fledermaus@mstdn.io 21 points 22 hours ago

But the left in the USA is like half a dozen people, they don't even have a party, how would they organize it?

Because Democrats are just a more "moderate" right.