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submitted 2 weeks ago by breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca to c/world@lemmy.world

NATO allies are inching closer to sending troops into Ukraine to train Ukrainian forces, a move that would be another blurring of a previous red line and could draw the United States and Europe more directly into the war.

Ukraine’s manpower shortage has reached a critical point, and its position on the battlefield in recent weeks has seriously worsened as Russia has accelerated its advances to take advantage of delays in shipments of American weapons. As a result, Ukrainian officials have asked their American and NATO counterparts to help train 150,000 new recruits closer to the front line for faster deployment.

So far the United States has said no, but Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Thursday that a NATO deployment of trainers appeared inevitable. “We’ll get there eventually, over time,” he said.

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[-] rayyy@lemmy.world 45 points 2 weeks ago

Putin is making his move. Russia is breaking a treaty, invading a sovereign country and trying to destabilize several countries through psyops. Those sitting on the fence will wind up under his boot.

[-] MataVatnik@lemmy.world 35 points 2 weeks ago

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have been calling this out for years. Maybe it's time we start listening to them and let them take the lead.

[-] slaacaa@lemmy.world 40 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Seems like Putin made a really good investment with funneling money into some Republican politicians’ pockets, the delay in the US funding might actually turn the war in his favor. I’m disgusted by the traitors in the West cheering for Russia, the literal evil empire from the pages of a comic book, trying destroy our way of life in Europe.

[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, it's fucking wild... Trump is straight up a Russian asset as well. If he wins in November we could see radical failures all over the world.

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 20 points 2 weeks ago
[-] MataVatnik@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

UK SAS that volunteered in Ukraine was advocating for this from the start.

[-] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago

Red line is funny. We signed the Budapest accords back in the 80s. We are just in denial about it.

[-] CTDummy@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Care to elaborate? Who is violating the Budapest ~~accords~~ memorandum in your view?

[-] bassomitron@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago

That would be Russia, is my guess:

The memoranda, signed in Patria Hall at the Budapest Convention Center with US Ambassador Donald M. Blinken amongst others in attendance, prohibited Russia, the United States and the United Kingdom from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.

[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The most frightening implication of the total abrogation of the Budapest Memorandum is that it’s basically entirely killed the idea of nuclear non-proliferation due to two huge points:

  • Going forward, nobody is going to believe any “guarantees of territorial integrity and sovereignty” underwritten by Russia (obviously), the US, or the UK, in the context of a one-time exchange for nuclear disarmament
  • The obvious corollary to the total abrogation of the Budapest Memorandum by the parties underwriting said sovereignty and security is that nuclear weapons have essentially been confirmed as the absolute final word in guaranteeing a country’s territorial integrity and sovereignty. Nobody will invade your country if one of the consequences is “we will start glassing your cities”. We are going to see a HUGE resurgence in nuclear weapon development programs worldwide in the coming decades as a direct result of this myopic idiocy.
[-] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Sorry, 90s. I stand happily corrected.

[-] Omniraptor@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

Ok wtf. How are you supposed to even enforce that, nevermind that there seems to be no enforcement mechanism for anything in the treaty, but economic coercion is just an inherent part of relations under capitalism.

[-] Davel23@fedia.io 8 points 2 weeks ago

95% of people who cite the Budapest Memorandum have no idea what it actually says.

Well, some of them do, but are trying to actively misinform others on the topic.

[-] ID411@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 weeks ago

NATO has been training Ukraine troops, in country, since at least 2015.

I don’t know what the fuck this is about

[-] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 27 points 2 weeks ago

They haven't been training Ukrainian troops in-country since the start of the full-scale invasion. The US in particular pulled all their troops out about 10 days before Russia invaded.

[-] MataVatnik@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Tbh I’d like it if NATO could just say “right so we’re taking over Ukraine’s IADS and augmenting it with our own stuff”.

[-] dumbass@leminal.space 4 points 2 weeks ago

I dont think a bunch of shoes are gonna help things.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Fuck that, call that shit stains bluff and put NATO boots on the ground and turn russias military into dust particles. The only way to stop the new nazis is to remove every semblance of them.

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


NATO allies are inching closer to sending troops into Ukraine to train Ukrainian forces, a move that would be another blurring of a previous red line and could draw the United States and Europe more directly into the war.

Ukraine’s manpower shortage has reached a critical point, and its position on the battlefield in recent weeks has seriously worsened as Russia has accelerated its advances to take advantage of delays in shipments of American weapons.

As a part of NATO, the United States would be obligated under the alliance’s treaty to aid in the defense of any attack on the trainers, potentially dragging America into the war.

The White House has been adamant that it will not put American troops, including trainers, on the ground in Ukraine, a position that an administration official reiterated on Thursday.

Other NATO allies, including Britain, Germany and France, are working to base defense contractors in Ukraine to help build and repair weapons systems closer to the combat zone — what military officials have described as a “fix it forward” approach.

“There is an element of ally malpractice in the fact that we’re providing masses of Western equipment to Ukraine, but not giving them the resources to sustain it,” said Alexander S. Vindman, a retired Army lieutenant colonel and a Ukrainian-born American combat veteran.


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this post was submitted on 16 May 2024
189 points (96.6% liked)

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