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You're getting a lot of answers from Americans. Be aware that CBD oil sold in Germany (Dm, Rossmann, etc.) almost certainly doesn't contain significant levels of THC.
The evidence doesn't seem to suggest CBD alone is effective in pain management:
Cannabis oil that contains THC is almost certainly a different matter.
Thank you for the heads up! Half way through the answers I asked myself if a German community would have been a better pace to ask in terms of obtaining the substances, but the effect should be globally available I guess.
Are you informed if the latter is legally available in Germany?
THC is illegal, at least for now. That's what they're aiming to change at the moment.
Medical marijuana is legal in Germany. If OP needs it for health reasons he could go through legitimate process.
I heard it's legal in theory, but super complicated to impossible to get a prescription.
Only with CBD products bought at a marijuana dispensary. The crap they have at gas stations and the like does absolutely nothing.
My favorite has been Mary Jane's subliminal tincture. It's CBD oil in a 1:16 ratio of THC and unlike the other subliminals I've tried, they put some flavor in it so it's like butterscotch and not gross fish oil like flavor that gives me heartburn.
There's been some research and basically those products are unregulated and a good amount of them have zero or negligible actual CBD in them.
Some claim like, grams of CBD and they have zero in them it's just oil. It's basically homeopathic CBD.
My wife and I both have lives now because of it. In my case, I have body aches from a bad car wreck, and after ten years of only getting maybe 3 hours of good sleep each night, followed by prescribed meds that left me dopey all day long, marijuana was legalized here. My wife makes CBD cookies for me and after a bit of experimenting to get the right amount, I now generally wake up feeling refreshed and have even been needing less sleep for the last several years.
On the other hand, my wife lives with chronic pain from childhood accidents including one where she was partially paralyzed for a few years (spine injuries suck!). She is now on permanent disability because she wasn't able to sit at a desk for 8 hours a day. Since mj was legalized, she got off the opioids, smokes throughout the day to manage the pain as needed, but is able to get things done around the house when she's having good days (which is most of the time).
If you want to go down this road, you will definitely get a better experience than you have with doctor-prescribed medications, however because there's still not a lot of data on the subject you will want to find what works for YOU. If you do any cooking, learn how to make oil and butter from mj, and use that to bake your own cookies, cakes, or whatever. This way you have control over what strains go in to what you are eating, and you can control how much of it is used. You can get instruments to be more scientific with it, but really once you have some experience with CBD/mj it won't really matter. It also tends to be quite a lot cheaper than buying pre-made edibles from the store.
Now, for what to expect... For my use, the right amount is something that I barely feel, if at all. What I do notice is once it starts to kick in (which is right before bed anyway), I start to drift off and have to make an effort to get up and go to bed. If I eat too much then yeah, things can start to get a bit crazy, and I don't get as good of sleep that night. For my wife managing her pain, she describes it by saying the pain doesn't really go away, she just stops caring about it so it doesn't control her life. Again, the right amount isn't so much that she acts like a stoner all the time (and she consumes a LOT more than I do), but rather it's enough that she can start to function again despite the pain. So it's not unusual for you to not feel anything, but it's also possible you're simply not getting enough.
Hope that helps?
Yeah, thank you! As far as I understand what you describe, your therapy is not solely based on CBD but also a not irrelevant fraction of THC, am I getting that right? Honestly I'm a little scared to go that route, but I'm really happy it held you so much!
CBD's apparently not really effective for general pain relief, but there's some data that suggest that it's effective for neuropathic pain.
I take a full spectrum extract specifically for neuropathic pain and it's been moderately helpful, and since it's also immunomodulatory it seems to help some with flare-ups of my autoimmune disease. Not a miracle cure or anything, but it's been better than nothing and definitely doesn't make me feel as terrible as the more, uh, pharmaceutical options for treating neuropathic pain such as gabapentin, so I've stuck with it.
After consulting my favorite search engine for what neuropathic pain is (not your fault, but language barrier of a non-native speaker) I guess this is what I'm looking for! How do you obtain your CBD? Pharmacy or online?
Online store. It's Finnish and CBD's not strictly speaking legal here, but it's not exactly illegal either and authorities have outright said they don't know wtf they should be doing with this stuff – so they have the label "small batch collectible product, not for consumption" on their products to cover their asses 😄
I'm having trouble finding it, but I ran across a study a few months ago whose results pointed to greater pain relief gains when CBD was consumed with THC, and that both substances alone do less to "relieve" pain.
I wouldn't say it helps relieve pain as much as it lets you be distracted from pain.
Also, personally, when I have used CBD on it's own, it never did anything for me at all. It only ever worked in combination with THC.
Finally, people taking other medications need to be careful about taking CBD.
The vast majority of medications are broken down by enzyme CYP3A4, an enzyme that CBD inhibits.
I am taking a life-saving/life-altering medication to manage a severe disease. It is handled in my body by CYP3A4. Meaning I can really fuck up my medication dosage by taking CBD on its own, because it will inhibit the ability of CYP3A4 to ingest the drug.
User pizza_rolls@kbin.social helpfully pointed out that grapefruit inhibits CYP3A4 as well, so if you're not supposed to eat grapefruit, you should probably also avoid CBD. I hadn't even made that connection myself, very astute, pizza_rolls!
Thank you for pointing that out! ~~In~~ I'm in the happy place of not having to take anything else on a regular basis, but it sure makes sense to keep the heads up of required.
Absolutely. I am glad I did the research myself and stumbled across this fact, because when I was prescribed this drug I bought a lot of CBD chocolates, thinking they would help. I was surprised that sooooooooo many prescribed medications use CYP3A4 as a pathway to enter the body, and how this isn't discussed more often. I really haven't seen very much discussion at all about how CBD can inhibit the effectiveness of a whole host of prescription drugs.
Anyway, cheers, glad to be sharing the info!
My wife has chronic neuropathic pain, and the CBD gummies seem to help her sleep. They don't seem to overtly reduce the pain, but maybe make her less anxious about it.
Thank you! I think, this is an aspect I tend to underestimate: the anxiousness pain causes. It is not affecting me much of what I experience, but deep down, it is a thing.
Pain is a really interesting thing, and there's an undeniably subjective aspect of it. My wife has had a chronic pain condition since 2008, and one thing I've noticed it's that her pain is worse when she's stressed, PMSing, or whatever. There's no objective way to measure pain, and I think at least part of what's happening is that her ability to deal with one level of pain gets better or worse depending on her mental state.
I think of it like going out and finding you have a flat tire. If there's not much going on, you're not rushed, you had a good night's sleep, etc., you might just think "Well, that's annoying," and deal with it. If you're sleep deprived, your kid is sick, and you're under a bunch of pressure at work, you might just want to sit on the curb and cry. Same situation, but your ability to deal with it is different.
Pain is like that, I think. If you're in a bad place, things seem to hurt more because your ability to deal with the pain is less.
CBD has zero effect on me. However, THC ramps my anxiety up to 1000. Maybe I'm just a freak of nature?
THC will cause anxiety and paranoia if your tolerance is low or you use particularly stimulating cannabis strain. This is where CBD is very useful because it decreases psychedelic effect. You can use either a balanced strain (equal or similar THC / CBD content) or supplement CBD in other form.
Okay I'm freshman enough to this topic to ask: how do you know what balance you aim for with regards to pain killing?
Start with a 1:1 and adjust from there.
Nah, everyone reacts differently to it, the ones that enjoy it are just a lot more vocal about it.
Personally THC has varied effects for me. Some strains make me space the fuck out (even more so than usual), as if I'm just skipping forward through time, no background thoughts, nothing. Just flash and I'm 20 minutes later. Others make me extremely anxious. Some make me spiral into a really bad depressive 'everyone hates me. I hate me' state. Some cause me to pass out, and not in the 'mmm good sleep' way, just straight up collapse to the ground pass out. I've found very few that have positive effects for me.
So you're definitely not unusual! The THC anxiety is very real
I think the important distinction here is the percentages of THC present with whatever you're taking.
If you and @danielton are just talking about getting stoned with cannabis, well yeah it's going to get you high.
If you guys are talking about taking CBD compound supplements with THC present, that's very different. THC at low percentages have little to no actual psychoactive effects (talking sub 10% which is way higher than any CBD-specific product can legally be sold as). THC only acts as a catalyst in this fashion.
CDB, CBG, CBC, and CBN, which all occur in different stages of degradation of the THC and CBD compound molecules. CBN is one of the last stages of degradation of THC and is associated with the almost-narcoleptic like sleep and is generally responsible for times that weed knocks you out, which is what I'm guessing happens for you! Not to be one of those vocal enjoyers, moreso highlighting the science behind why you felt the way you have with various strains. It's certainly the high doses of THC affecting you, but without any CBD compounds there's nothing to ease the THC.
It's similar to how we can take an NSAID and an analgesic. Of course we can just have one or the other to get the specific effect, but taking them combined delivers a wider range of effects that go beyond what they were originally meant for. edit The difference is that we have an endocannabinoid system that's meant to be active and using these theoretically helping prevent the issues in the first place - whereas NSAID and analgesics something we take as a suppressive.
Good to know. I tried three different types of it three different times, and one hit and my anxiety was ramped up to 1000. I hated every minute of it.
People I know all tell me marijuana is this universal Good Thing™ that mellows everybody out so I definitely felt like a freak of nature.
My wife was struggling with anxiety attacks from PTSD. She tried a few different CBD blends before settling on a pure CBD isolate with only flavoring added. She would buy it at a pharmacy that made their own specialty medications in-house. She would take it first thing in the morning and if she felt anxiety coming on later in the day. It really helped make her anxiety a little more manageable.
She eventually found a good psychiatrist that prescribed anti anxiety medication, and she hasn't really needed the CDB since. But it was very helpful for the few months that it took to find a psychiatrist and medication that worked for her.
Be careful. I suffer from anxiety too and used CBD for a while. At some point I was prescribed meds after having a few panic attacks due to some life issues. Those meds were benzodiazepines. That shit is amazing in the moment. Might be the most impactful medication I've ever taken. But they are easily the most addictive thing I have ever used (and I was a fairly troubled youth if you know what I mean). Long term they are awful for memory and may increase the odds of dimentia significantly. And withdrawal is some of the most severe of any addictive substance. Talking seizures and possible death from going cold turkey if you've been on for a long time and higherish dosage. Really only alcohol compares as far as withdrawal symptoms. Heroine and cocaine are less severe.
So all I'm saying is that if they are benzos, they are not a good long term solution in spite of the fact that they work very well. All benzos labels say they should only be given for very short term management, but doctor's hand out that shit like candy.
Cognitive behavioral therapy is absolutely great for anxiety and requires less or no drugs. Also, there are some other options for long term management that aren't so dangerous. Hopefully it is one of those if she takes it regularly.
I find CBD oil helps with anxiety. Not a severe case of anxiety, but it does take the edge off.
Yes, they stop my panic attacks and help me sleep at night. But I’m super picky on brand. I use only lab verified, US companies that have been in the business since before it was legalized nationwide. A lot of growers and such are being bought up by corporations and even Chinese companies and quality is going in the pisser. And I’ve even gotten a nightmare experience that had me trapped under the influence of something that definitely wasn’t cannabis based at all.
Chronic migraine sufferer here. Like 25+ days a MONTH, over 5 on the pain scale, plus all the other fun symptoms.
I had tried literally every other drug on the market for migraine, even some off label, except Botox. The newest class of migraine drugs wasn’t on the market yet. History tells me I likely will not do well with Botox, so as a last ditch effort, before trying it, I decided to experiment with weed again.
Life changing is an understatement. Went from most of the month, where I felt like I was slowly dying, to having MAYBE 2 relatively mild migraines per YEAR.
Certain strains work better for me as an abortive, than others, but just having it in my system daily gave me my life back. It doesn’t seem to matter whether is a 1:1 (CBD:THC) or just a regular old mostly THC strain, it just works for me.
Have you tried cgrp antagonists? I tried literally everything to the point where multiple neurologists said they couldn't help me. I was using THC for a long time for my migraines but I was still suffering. With cgrp antagonists I feel 100% normal and it works every time, even if it takes longer if I take it too late.
It's worth trying a sample if you haven't, because it's a world of difference between being high with a migraine and just not having one anymore IMO
Nurtec is approved for preventative now too
CBD never did shit for migraines for me, only anxiety
Thank you and I'm so happy for you it helps!
I think you need to find your dosage and stay on it to help with inflammation which can also reduce pain. I took a lot when I lifted weights regularly. But I ended up making it myself to make it affordable.
I'd use a reputable company. Some seem to try to keep costs down--I sometimes would buy theirs for convenience. (I would use an decarb/infusion machine and eventually bought an extraction machine. Basically cold alcohol wash hemp then evaporate the alcohol back out).
If you're taking any other meds, speak to a doctor before you try it.
I have a chronic illness that led to organ transplantation, and cannabis would interfere with one of my rejection meds. That would have caused me much bigger problems than the pain that I was trying to stop.
Unfortunately, cannabis has an almost cult like mythology around it. There are lots of people who will tell you that it cures everything, from mild pain to every type of cancer, and will even clean and polish your car 😉
I hope you find what you need. Good luck 🙂
This is a tricky question. I'm inclined to have a positive opinion about CBD, but if I'm completely honest I don't feel much of anything from it solo. I've taken CBD by itself multiple times and it always just seemed like a placebo. I think CBD and THC together have a great synergy, but it really misses the mark when I only have the one without psychoactive effects.
On the other hand, I've had friends swear by CBD tinctures. They were doing large doses (like 50mg+) daily and claimed it had all sorts of benefits for their chronic pain or upset stomach. I never tried doing doses that big regularly just because of the cost and my previous experiences leaving me dissatisfied.
For what it's worth, Extract Labs is one of the sources I've had recommended to me by a trusted friend.
Yes CBD and THC is synergistic but that’s not the end of that story. You should try two things:
Buy actual quality CBD and CBG oil
put each under your tongue for ~90 seconds, add THC if you want
You don’t need to chug a bottle of oil and the end goal isn’t to feel high it doesn’t manage pain the way THC or other pain killers do
On the other hand, I’ve had friends swear by CBD tinctures. They were doing large doses (like 50mg+) daily and claimed it had all sorts of benefits for their chronic pain or upset stomach.
That's because their endocannabinoid system is actively in use, unlike people who do not take CBD supplements. We metabolized CBD very well and our bodies will use it when it's there, so for a lot of people taking CBD they need to jump-start the endocannabinoid system to start processing it.
Often times people will take 1000mg for the first week (or two), then cut that in half to 500mg, then in half for until you are down to 50mg or 15mg doses. Normally we'd have been getting our CBD compounds from the things we eat that eat hemp, something that was prevalent as a feed in the U.S. and is still prevalent in other countries (Nepal, for example). However since we stopped using hemp, animals stopped passing on CBD compounds to us and here we are today with a society full of symptoms of a non-working endocannabinoid system (and well, signs of lead poisoning but lets just move past that...) which include - chronic nerve pain, gastrointestinal issues, issues with insomnia, mood and anxiety. You know, everything that we attribute to just the daily struggles of society today.
Of course, they most likely are just that, but it seems pretty crazy to me that we have a whole system in our body that is essentially on the backburner with very high correlation to many of the health problems.
Just remember, don't be afraid of THC. They need each other to work effectively, and THC doesn't have to mean high. Obviously, if it's a legality issue that's a different story, but in regards to an edible that has >5% or uses the letters LOC then don't even think about it for a second - it's fine. Think of its present as the catalyst for the reaction.
Thank you for passing on the recommendation! I'm a little scared to go with any significant fraction of THC... Maybe my dose was just too low so far.
the problem is the legality of other cannibinoids where you live …
I'm in bed with a fractured wrist and an opoid intolerance/allergy. Where can I learn more about the dominant pain systems/different solutions you mentioned?
YES!!!!
the most important thing you must understand is that QUALITY MATTERS. Even the stuff I got at dispensaries could be hit or miss.
I use AlliantHemp for my CBD, CBG, and CBN supplements and it truly changed my life in regards to replacing other medicines
The Reddit CBD sub was a big help for me on finding reputable sources. If the sub still exists check out their sidebar (and then leave so you don’t give Reddit more engagement)
AMA if u want
Thank you for your response! Of it's not tmi, can you dig a little deeper in what regards it has been a help for you? Also pain relief?
Yes, I used CBD herb (hemp) along with a dynavap to quit smoking: It worked great! I still vape dry herb partly to relax and partly to quell any urges for cigarettes since a dynavap is very similar in shape and use. I have been cigarette free for 5 years now!
It has an effect but the price for that effect is insane (at least in the UK) . It isn't an instant thing you need to keep taking it for at least a few weeks.
Definitely made me much calmer but like I said not at that price.
I recently got a medical card for cannabis. during the call, the doctor said to use a CBD:THC combo for the best results on pain relief. seems to be working well for me.