Screenshots of people being insane on Facebook. Please censor names/pics of end users in screenshots. Please follow the rules of lemmy.world
These guys are really entertaining. Flat earth people are boring by comparison. Sovcits will use 15 legal and Latin terms they learned from their redneck uncle, cram all of them into a single rage Facebook post not understanding what any of them mean. Wonderful.
They're truly enjoyably bonkers.
Judges are less amused
As they should be. (grabs some popcorn…)
Forget the Facebook rage. Hit up YouTube or your favorite more free alternative and you can watch amazingly confident sovcit nitwits square up against cops and judges.
I love how every sovcit post here could be posted to !aneurysmposting@sopuli.xyz
I need to start cross posting. No reason those folks should miss out.
I swear, I've read a few of these and they sound like they're playing some kinda fantasy tabletop game that's stupid thick with weird rules and builds, and their staring at all of us like "obviously you can mix a hexblade with an abrant mind for optimal spells and subtle spells, and the DM is pissed I got silvery barbs, but I showed him how it's an official spell so they should let me use it, but if i get aspect of the moon I don't have to sleep so I can short rest to replace my spells lots for free and then I can convert...."
Can anyone actually explain what this person THINKS their rights are here? Like, are they just saying "you can't give me a moving violation fine because I never signed up for that so it's theft and slavery"? Or is there something more nuanced to their argument that I'm missing?
EDIT: Thank you to everyone who has contributed. My big takeaway from this is that sovcits pick and choose which legal language to believe like a modern American Catholic picks and chooses Bible verses to believe. 👍
You know how dogs don’t necessarily understand the words you’re saying to get them to do a trick, or why they’re doing the trick? It’s basically that, if dogs thought they could make you do tricks by barking correctly. How much lead exposure factors into it is up for debate.
a modern incarnation of cargo cult?
You know I've never connected it to SovCits but the cargo cult comparison matches well. With a dash of conspiracy theorizing.
When you are born, the government creates a fake corporate entity with your same name. That's the thing that accrues the debts, fines, and jail sentences, not you the person. As long as you never sign a document in black or blue ink they cannot assign those to you because of arcane law stuff.
This is FOR REAL the core reasoning of sovcits???
I think there might be multiple subgenres, but this person/corporation duality is definitely one of the subgenres. I think the common element is they all believe there is some sort of magic spell they can cast to be immune to regulations.
They think that because they do not "create joinder" by accepting the ticket that it doesn't apply to them. They will "rescind" them by sending them back with some nonsense written on it at a 45 degree angle in red ink with a thumbprint and believe that cancels the ticket. Here is an example.
Ok, so obviously, this doesn't work, but let's pretend for a second that it does for my following question. Why would the red writing need to be at 45°?
Why are sovcits batshit crazy? Who knows. It is funny picturing a county clerk with a compass and ruler going "It's 44.5°, we got them boys"
I would argue the drivers license is the proof of a contract stating you’ll follow the law pertaining to it. The ticket is a penalty for breaking that contract, not a new contract. But I know their lack of understanding logic.
I see. That's... Just so patently false on the face of it. I suppose if people want to believe hard enough, they will.
Not sure how they fail to understand the difference between a notice and an agreement but good luck to them, I suppose.
Abstractly, we as people in society abide a social contract. Not a physical document we signed but a general expectation we all hold of each other in how we interact as citizens.
He appears to reject this style of thinking and refuse the consequences of this social contract because it isn't something they've actually consented into, like you would when signing a physical contract.
So to this person this traffic ticket is a debt placed on them by someone with no authority to do so.
Typically it's people who get pulled into this thought process when seeking legal help and are unable to distinguish good advice from bad advice. They join these groups of like minded people and it becomes a blind leading the blind scenario. Or by someone trying to scam them with 'lessons'.
I think it stems from the complex nature of law there's some things that sound so fake that are real that it blurs the lines. For example the US Congress can authorize ordinary people to engage in maritime theft against other nations.
It's always these people trespassing on other people's property and then wondering why there's consequences.
It's not even that hard to get permission. Just register for use of the roads, chip in your money to keep them open and running, and you get to use the government's property all you like! Just respect their rules like you would any property owner, and you can ~~drive~~ travel on their roads as much as you need. If it were anyone else's roads, you'd probably get denied and then shot unless you paid a huge access fee. Use of state property is amazingly easy and reasonable.
It's not even being able to use them, anyone has the right to travel on foot or by non-motorized bike. It's specifically driving heavy machinery that can tear up the roads or injure someone you need a license for (ie, a car). Though even then, there are still rules to follow as a pedestrian.
Calling the judge a burger flipper. That's a good tactic.
Judges love that kind of thing.
Well, folders do look like 2 slices of cardboard with paper inside, a bit like a paperburger. And judges flip them, yes. These are UNDENIABLE FACTS!
When I’m reading one of these, I never know if it’s the nonsensical rant of a stubborn asshole, or someone who genuinely needs psychiatric help. In other words, I don’t know whether it’s okay to laugh or not.
Welp... this post just confirmed to me what I've been suspecting about a friend I've been distancing myself from for years. I didn't realize they call themselves "nationals," so he's definitely a sovcit of the "moorish" variety based on a few things he's said. Progressively more and more fucking exhausting to talk to over the last ten years with the woo woo moronic shit and this is the most recent nonsense.
Definitely a sovcit. Some of them are Moorish Temple adherents, usually they are black. Others call themselves American state nationals or sometimes secured party creditors. Or private citizens is another one.
He is black, and I'm guessing moorish temple based on his comments and other things he's dabbled in. Most of what he dabbles in has roots in black nationalism that I recognize. Funnily enough, there's occasional veiled nazi shit I think he's unaware of, though given the far right nature of it all, I'm not surprised his uninformed ass stumbles across them. What is also strange, I do not think he harbors racial hate, though he may have some homo/transphobia. I'm not entirely sure because I'm not interested in listening to that shit. Though it would fit with the far right pipeline.
Sovereign citizens began in a white supremacy group known as Christian Identity in the 1970s so that's not at all a surprise to me. Sovcits are also HUGELY antisemitic and hate LGBT people. Your friend definitely sounds like he fits to me. He's probably in some of the Facebook groups I'm in as some of them are Moorish.
He was permanently banned from Facebook last year, lol. Idk what he did, but he has asked me to create an account for him to eventually take over because I don't have one. I flatly refused and expressed that it is probably best for him anyway. The LGBT hate is definitely an interesting turn for this particular guy, known him twenty years, but given the slow spiral I've watched, I'm not surprised. Last time we talked, he mentioned "learning more history," but he quickly followed it up with "but I'm done trying to convince people" before I could respond. I wanted to ask if that was a promise, goddamn.
It's roleplay. These people are roleplaying administrative skills, with fantasy names and concepts
Peter Griffin seceding from the USA and establishing Petoria made more sense than sovcits do.
I was reading that as Soviet Citizen.
In Soviet Russia, contract refuses you!
Sovcit: people who live in a society who believe they are entitled to all its privileges without any of the responsibilities