Finally someone with some fucking balls
this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2024
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Russia's been nuclear saber rattling so much it might as well be "China's Final Warning"
If France wants to give their own saber a rattle and it makes Russia pause for some internal reflection for a moment, more power to them.
Don’t fuck with the French.
People forget they were a super power for centuries.
Despite all the jokes, The French have won more wars than any other country in history. They were exhausted by the time 1940 rolled around
They're country is right in the middle of one of the areas of the world with the most wars of all time, and it stretches from coast to coast. That alone says a ton.
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Don’t fuck with the French.
But what if I ... oh, you meant that as a figure of speech. Got it.
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As much as I dislike Macron, I'll just remember that he was one of the European leaders that was favoring finding a diplomatic solution the most during the earlier weeks of the war. He's probably being more opportunistic than brave, honest or committed, but at least you can't accuse him of being a bloodlusting warmonger.
Nothing wrong with diplomatic solution if it leads to a withdrawal of the aggressor.
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Finally someone with some friggin balls
That could be called balls if he would take the rifle himself.
Otherwise, it's political play - maybe a necessary one, but it has nothing to do with "balls".
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Following the meeting, Jordan Bardella of the far-right National Rally party noted that “there are no restrictions and no red lines” in Macron’s approach.
I don't know what this means, but it seems like a win for Ukraine, ofc it is just talk right now.
And it most likely will remain talk. Macron would help Ukraine more by helping to set up a robust military supply chain for Ukraine.
It's a reference to russian speakers' 'red lines' when foreign parties and Ukraine did something to cross them multiple times, but there was nothing in reaction. Ex-USSR folks started to call it brown lines for how they shit themselves with that rhetoric. I believe, even pro-war fanatics called them that at some point.
This is a remarkable turn around of two years ago when Macron warned about not to humiliate Putin.
Yeah it really is. It's apparently pissing off Germany in particular within the EU - versus it's size and other nations, France has provided relatively little in aid compared to Germany, UK, US, and Macron initially undermined the joint front being put forward as you say. Now he is grandstanding and seemingly trying to "lead" while also seemingly advocating escalation.
Everyone else is treading a fine line between confronting Putin and not escalating things further.
For what it's worth, I actually do think we should be doing more because Putin is a dangerous tyrant and appeasement over the past 20 years hasn't worked. He invaded Georgia and now Ukraine twice, he interferes in global elections undermining democracy and he is an authoritarian dictator who wants to expand his influence further into his neighbours. But Macron is not a credible leader for that, and whatever happens needs to be co-ordinated and carefully actioned - where there is more sanctions, or targeted military support.
Sadly the US, UK and Germany are also all led by weak leaders and for now there is no credible leader to galvanise western democracies to work better together. I don't see any strong up and coming leaders in the forthcoming UK and US elections (barring a surprise in the US elections given the age of the candidates; and even then it'd likely be Kamala Harris or Nikki Haley, neither of whom seem likely to be much difference), Germany is unlikely to yield a leader in the near future. That does ironically leave the next French presidential election as the best opportunity for someone better to emerge, but I suspect it will degenerate into another "anyone but Le Pen" election.
Russia's hot engagements in Burkina Faso, Central Africa, Mali and Syria, the various degrees of meddling in e.g. Armenia, Moldova and Yemen, and the 20 years of general political "influencing" all across Africa and the Arab countries are often neglected. This is why parts of the Western public don't understand the need to contain Russia. It's a wannabe worldwide player, and it's corrupt as hell. Allowed to have its way, it'll turn every country into a vassal autocracy, Soviet-union style.
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I hope this makes Putin's stomach churn, as if his piss wasn't frothy enough since the start of this war revealed some of his navy was missing before they even began.
Part of his Navy went AWOL? I totally missed that what with "Russian Warship, Go Fuck Yourself."
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I am in conflict about that move. But Macron at least tries to irritate Putin with his own definition of a „red line“, like „if you push to Odessa or Kyiv we will send troops“ maybe this is just the way of talking to Putin now, Russia always threaten Europe of nuclear strikes, their propaganda shitty tv shows is full of bombing Great Britain and sink the whole island, bombing or conquering Berlin again blah blah. They won’t because they can’t because of NATO and even without the US, Russia is not capable to conquer whole Europe, yet. So I think it is a good move in terms of threatening Putin with nato troops in Ukraine, because this is the only language he understands. On the other hand France is kinda safe when it comes to a conventional war, at least for a long time. Of course Germany is scared because it is not that far away, it is literally just Poland between Germany and russia and the German military is by far not able to fight a war against a well trained army with endless human resources.
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If French troops were sent into Ukraine and were then hit by Russia, would that then trigger NATO agreements?
Article 6 says:
"For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer; on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer."
Aware this might be a situation where the spirit of the agreement ends up being more important than the legalese.
It would not. It's a defensive treaty.
Ukraine isn't a part of France or under the jurisdiction of France, so the attack wouldn't be on France's territory, and Ukraine isn't a member of NATO itself.
Complete speculation but I'd bet that the UK government is so fickle that if France sent in troops then the UK would 'have' to send in its own, and by that point the US MiC would be complaining that the US hadn't sent them in.
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