this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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Proton

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Proton keeps dodging my questions (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/protonprivacy@lemmy.world
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I've had it up to here with Proton.

I'm an Unlimited subscriber, but even so I receive promotional ads in the Proton VPN app for Android (e.g., "Limited time offer..." or "x% off..."), which is something I find distracting and weird, since my subscription is active. These promotions don't always appear in the app, but it was really bad around the turn of the new year. It made me feel like I was using some sketchy crapware I accidentally downloaded from the Play store vs. a legitimate VPN app.

Let me make this clear: I am not talking about emails! I know how to manage emails, but for some weird reason, it's all anyone ever responds with. If one more person replies with information on how to manage email subscriptions, so help me...

I am specifically talking about promotions that appear to be baked into the app itself and are indismissable and perpetually visible within the app. (See my examples above, if you're still confused by what I mean. I wish I'd taken screenshots last time it happened.)

Another issue I've had with Proton is that occasionally I will receive popups on their web site that entirely obstruct the screen and have no way to bypass them. Here's an example of one advertising Proton Pass, that has no x button and nothing to click except "Start using Proton Pass now," which is not something I want to do!

If you check my comment history, you can see multiple instances of my asking the Proton fediverse account (I think they're on Mastodon) about these things, and every time without fail, they reply telling me how to manage email subscriptions, which (to be clear) IS NOT AT ALL WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, IN FACT I WAS VERY EXPLICIT ABOUT THIS.

So I finally contacted them via support. Here's what I said:

How can I disable notifications for promotions on your web site? (See: https://i.postimg.cc/FsvxM5CH/proton-Copy.png)

How can I disable notifications for promotions in the Proton VPN app for Android?

I'm not talking about emails, but about the "50% off now!!!!" or "Try our new product!!!" style advertisements that I keep seeing.

I am a subscriber to Unlimited, and I do not want to see these self-promoting ads from Proton.

Let me just quote this one more time. I said:

I'm not talking about emails

So here's the response I got:

I ... I can't fucking believe it.

I've sent one last message about this, but I don't feel very hopeful at this point. If they replied with something like, "Unfortunately, we don't allow users to dismiss promotions," I could probably live with that ... but this total dodging and ignoring simple questions is a huge red flag. Do I trust these people with my privacy when they can't even answer a simple question?

Fortunately, all of these services have viable alternatives, so if they are unable to answer me this time, then farewell to Proton. I'm sick of this shit.

Edit: PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME ABOUT EMAIL PREFERENCES

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[–] ClopClopMcFuckwad@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I've been using proton for as long as its been around. I'm a paid user. I have email, VPN, drive and pass apps. I have never had an ad show up in any of my apps, nor any special offers. I'm on android.

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[–] Gingerlegs@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Interesting, and strange. I’m on iOS and a subscriber but I’ve never seen an ad.

I do believe around Black Friday there was a lightning bolt or some shit, when I clicked it was a Black Friday deal. Outside of that, nothing.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago

Yes! I think it started around Black Friday, and I think the lightning bolt might have been a thing. I wish I'd screenshotted it. It was very distracting as it was designed to catch your attention, and there was no way to dismiss it.

Someone else mentioned that it should have disappeared or be able to be dismissed and that maybe I got a bugged version of the app, because it was constantly there for me, I think up until the promotion ended. And the promotion didn't even apply to me since I already pay for Unlimited.

[–] Klicnik@sh.itjust.works 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Speaking of unwanted ads, my gosh, that image hosting site you used nearly gave my phone cancer.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I've never seen a single ad on that site using uBlock Origin and Firefox/Fennec. I wasn't even aware that they run ads.

[–] Klicnik@sh.itjust.works 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I see more ads than website. Hah.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 9 months ago (3 children)

You should use uBlock Origin. It's pretty much mandatory in today's ad-ridden hellscape.

[–] PlantObserver@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Browsing the internet without it these days is like fucking a methed out hooker bareback. I don't understand why anyone even considers the prospect.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 9 months ago

When I first got a new work computer, I forgot to install it at first, and it's gotten so bad out there. If uBO didn't exist, I don't think I'd really use the internet very often.

[–] Klicnik@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I keep hearing about it. It may finally be time. Thanks.

[–] Wiz@midwest.social 3 points 9 months ago

It's very much worth it

[–] experbia@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you keep trying the support route, I figure I'll throw in my general tech support 2c, at the risk of it being unhelpful.

I've had to fight my natural temptation to "over specify" or "increase specificity" when tech support sometimes doesn't "get" my problem. the extra words (like "this is NOT about the emails") can seem like they're narrowing things down, but can instead make the canned response system or the underpaid human scanning the email confused about the context. I generally now suggest "underspecifying" - go for something simpler that requires someone to engage you somehow to resolve the problem. Like, "my problem is that I unsubscribed from your emails like you told me to, but I'm still getting them, it didn't work". Then suddenly, this might be a bug report of something broken. That gets a lot more attention.. upstream humans need to look at it to decide if it's something affecting just you or everyone on the whole system. When they are in the process of determining this, they'll have to notice you're referring to the push notifications and not actual emails in order to decide it's not a big problem waiting to happen for them.

This underspecificity has helped me a lot in getting better customer support. I never intend to lie outright or be rude... I just lower my skill level. A lot. To a low-tech user, the difference between a push notification and an email is not terribly clear. These support systems tend to work better on low-tech users because, well, most people are low-tech.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago

Oh so for example, I could say: "I tried this, but it didn't work."

[–] OrangeCorvus@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Did you check email preferences?

Sorry, couldn't resist it.

[–] LunchEnjoyer@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (4 children)

You sir are absolutely not alone about this! I mostly use Proton via the Web, and even with the Unlimited Subscription, I got ads all over Black Friday, and after about some family plan upgrades if I recall correctly. Their marketing have been off the charts, almost as bad as other VPN providers.

Although I trust Proton with my data, I really don't like some of their choices, pluss the lack of Linux support. I can see myself checking them out at a later point again, but for now I've had enough. Migrating to other services that suit me better:

  • Bitwarden
  • Mailbox
  • Mullvad / IVPN (undecided)
[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I feel seen! It's weird that some people don't seem to have gotten the ads. Maybe it was just people in certain countries? (I'm in the US)

I've already been using Bitwarden, and I love it so much. I honestly pay for it just to support it.

The main things are the VPN itself and Drive for cloud storage. I too have thought about IVPN or Mullvad, but neither seem quite as good as Proton. Mozilla also has a VPN service, but I never see it mentioned.

And I'm way too non-techy to think of self hosting or anything like that.

[–] LunchEnjoyer@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I dotn know much about Mozilla VPN, but I believe I heard its a white label of Mullvad, so I assume thir feature set to be similar.

As someone who is deep into the world of VPNs (writing my masters about this), I personally would only recommend the aforementioned ones.

For cloud storage I used to use MEGA and really enjoyed their services, but also not 100% open source i think. Otherwise you could check out Filen.io, or Ente.io(for pictures only).

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I guess I'm alright with using Mega. I'd prefer open source of course, but I mostly just don't want to use something from Google, Apple, or Microsoft.

[–] LunchEnjoyer@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Jup, same boat here

[–] Prototype9215@mastodon.social 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

@LunchEnjoyer @LinkOpensChest_wav I am also so frustrated with their lack of Linux support! I just set up wireguard on my machine instead of using their Linux ui. Even their cli freezes and fails to log me in. Then the support chat just says "sorry, we don't officially support your flavor of Linux"

[–] dazo@infosec.exchange 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

@Prototype9215 @LunchEnjoyer @LinkOpensChest_wav

That's what really happens when @protonmail insists on doing everything on their own, not even doing the continuous development in the open. They provide source code updates only on stable releases, and even that can be delayed some days until after the release.

That's not how you build a community of users, developers and package maintainers.

Had they instead spent resources getting their Linux packages into the native package streams for the most important distros, they would have solved more bugs earlier with help from the community.

That is probably the most disappointing aspect of Proton. They still don't grasp how to interact with a broader community, to get real help.

They would still need to review contributions, just as I expect they do with changes from their own employees. So it wouldn't reduce the security.

Also, they can't really hide behind the code not being ready to be published; they code is being published in the end.

But they really miss the opportunity to get their packages into the standard Lunux repositories. Which would help resolving all the incompatibility issues they now have with certain Linux distributions.

On top of that, all the needed tooling required already exists. It just need to implemented correctly in their processes.

[–] amju_wolf@pawb.social 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Had they instead spent resources getting their Linux packages into the native package streams for the most important distros, they would have solved more bugs earlier with help from the community.

Or, you know, even just had official Flatpaks or something. I don't particularly like them but it's still way better than releasing only lonely RPMs without even a repo.

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[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I'm also unlimited, for years now. I've never seen an ad in the app.

Do you have a screenshot so we can see the ads or where they show up and start troubleshooting?

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This was the thing they were advertising. It appeared to be something actually baked into the app that was promoting this deal. It ended on January 3. Maybe I can try downgrading to the version of the app from that time period? I'm pretty sure it was hard-coded into the app itself during that time. I frequently open that app throughout the day, and it was there every time.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Yeah if it's definitely just the same one over and over, then you might have just got unlucky and some bug has it stuck in the app there.

You could try to grab a new version after clearing the data/cache before uninstalling, downgrade and update.

If it's just that one ad, it just sounds like you got a bum version of the app somehow, or some software glitch transformed the app somehow.

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[–] JoMomma@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I had upgrade ads while using Unlimited as well, went back to free version

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago

Thank God it wasn't just me! I wish I had taken a screenshot.

[–] Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I've been actively using the Proton VPN app both on my android phone and on multiple Linux distros for a year+ now and I haven't ever gotten an ad in-app.

My android Proton VPN app I got from fdroid though, not from the Google Playstore, so maybe that makes a difference?

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I too have the F-Droid version. There's another comment in this thread describing this in detail, including even a link and the version I'm currently running.

The ad I saw was a promotion for some end of year sale that didn't even apply to me since I'm already an Unlimited subscriber.

The other ads I've seen have been pop-ups on the Proton web site that can't be xed out of.

[–] Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Weird, must be certain users then. I wonder if it's a bug in their registration database.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago

If it is, then I'd submit an issue on github next time it happens, but first I need them to give me a real response!

[–] nailoC5@lemy.lol 4 points 9 months ago (4 children)

This was a common reported issue on their subreddit s between November to January. So, you can probably find many pictures of if there. Also, yes Proton is just another crappy company. I'll move to something with less restrictions once my subscription ends.

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[–] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca 3 points 9 months ago

Proton subscriber for, maybe 5 years(?) here. I don't recall ever seeing an ad specifically in the app. That said, I must have seen an ad either in the app or by email, because that's how I was introduced to proton Pass, which I now use and I'm glad I was introduced.
Were you logged in at the time?
First thing to do with any new program is go to settings and set all notifications and privacy and opt-out stuff the way you want.

[–] hydration9806@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Seems like the support email is a canned response. Obviously still frustrating, but did you try clarifying with them in a response email?

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago

Yes. I said in my post that I sent them one last email, and their response will determine whether I find it worthwhile to continue with their services.

I also got similarly irrelevant responses from their Mastodon account though, which is supposedly a real person.

[–] ares35@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago (4 children)

did you actually turn off all the 'subscriptions'? the first shot you included has a still few enabled, including one that could be the magic thing to turn off (product announcements) what you're so worked-up over.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

https://i.ibb.co/nQtzZ1r/Screenshot-20240203-131041-Fennec.jpg

I'm sorry I went off. I'm sure you were trying to be helpful, and I took it personally when you said I was worked up, which I shouldn't have done.

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[–] EmperorHenry@infosec.pub 3 points 9 months ago (5 children)

They sometimes have trouble reading what I'm actually saying sometimes too.

Just respond telling them that they didn't read what you typed and explain again that you're talking about the VPN app on android.

By the way, Android user and proton unlimited subscriber here, I've never seen any ads inside the proton VPN app on android. Not from proton, not from anything.

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