this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2023
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[–] BurnTheRight@kbin.social 80 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Conservatism is a global plague of deception, oppression and death. It always has been.

[–] Snowpix@yiffit.net 52 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Who downvoted this? Conservatism has always been an ideology that's opposed to progress, democracy and freedom. It holds back society to preserve tradition and "family values" while promoting xenophobia, bigotry, and unquestioned submission to authority. The most conservative states in the United States are also some of the poorest, with the lowest standards of living, and also the most backwards. It isn't much different in other countries. The Nazis were conservative. Islamic countries with Sharia Law are conservative. And right now, American Conservatives are trying to implement a Christian-flavoured Sharia Law.

[–] RedCanasta@lemmy.fmhy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

~~Conservatism~~ Capitalism has always been an ideology that's opposed to progress, democracy and freedom.

There you go, I fixed that for you.

All political entities serve the needs of capital first and foremost in a capitalist system, people are only a secondary...if that.

[–] GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Speaking as a Marxist, this is false. Capitalism was once the historical progressive force against feudalism. This was already waning two centuries ago, but it was not always true.

Glad another Marxist said it. The problem isn't that capitalism was always the wrong choice, it's that we're clinging to it long beyond its best before date.

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[–] BeatNik@kbin.social 43 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Isn't democracy collapsing everywhere? The USA's electoral voting system means democracy doesn't exist. A vote in California is worth 27% of a vote in Wyoming in terms of representation. Add on blatant gerrymandering and you've got a rigged system.

The UK has introduced voter ID laws for a problem that never existed in the past. The UK has also had multiple unelected prime ministers due to the way that the parliamentary system works.

Democracy is on the wane everywhere.

[–] curiosityLynx@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Haven't seen any indication of it being in danger in Switzerland. But we have proportional voting rather than first past the post and referenda are common.

[–] Nighthawk@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I was going to say this. The older democratic systems (easily identified by 1st-past-the-post) are falling apart at the seams, but the rest of us is (relatively) fine. Places like the US and UK need to change their system, but politicians have an incentive not to change anything.

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[–] Detry@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] Donjuanme@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

I would say they're better than a majority of other nations, but not much higher than the mean.

If you compared us to the worst we look great! We're closer to the best than the worst, but we should be competing for being the best and we're not nor does it seem like we will be any time soon.

[–] janeshep@feddit.it 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The UK has also had multiple unelected prime ministers due to the way that the parliamentary system works.

That's... not any indicator democracy is "on the wane". In most Western European countries we don't directly vote for the one man/woman, we vote for MPs because the legislative power is in the hands of the Parliament. As long as the Parliament is made of elected MPs then democracy is working just fine.

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[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

The US's system is unbalanced and unfair, but it's far from "doesn't exist". And while you have listed a pair of blue/red state pairs, look at the 2nd and next to last state and you see a red/blue state pair. So it's unfair, but it's not uniformly unfair.

[–] jalda@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

I'm not really familiar with the problem of voter ID laws in the UK. Here (Spain) showing your ID is mandatory to vote, and nobody think that's a problem (but we need ID for basically any paperwork, so it isn't an additional burden). Afaik, the problem in the USA is that it is quite difficult to get an ID card, and intentionally so for certain demographics. Is it the same in the UK?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (8 children)
[–] Skooshjones@vlemmy.net 8 points 1 year ago (15 children)

I'm not interested in any political system where I can't criticize the ruling party without fearing for my or my family's safety or permanently becoming unable to find employment anywhere except coal/steel plants working 12-14/hours straight 6 days a week for piss wages...

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[–] socsa@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (22 children)

Sorry, you can't have democracy without basic political agency. You can't have basic political agency without the ability to speak freely.

Picking between three party approved technocrats is not sufficient for political self determination.

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[–] ghariksforge@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

When I look at Modi I see another Erdogan

[–] herrwoland@lemmy.fmhy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

My exact thoughts, certainly a similarity between the two

[–] archpaladin1@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] lemuria@lemmy.ml 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)

can you even call it a democracy anymore?

[–] kunday@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Of course not. India used to be secular. the far right Hindu extremism is taking over. Also it's so good to be able to post this and not be trolled by pro Modi trolls. The amount of concentration of power due to lack of alternatives is so scary.

PS: I'm an Indian who now lives in Australia.

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[–] reddit_sux@iusearchlinux.fyi 11 points 1 year ago

Yes it is still a democracy, maybe a democrazy. There are no widespread voter suppression, disenfranchisement.

The most recent election has shown that.

There are some pockets of election tampering, violence but nowhere widespread.

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[–] Jaximus@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well it is Bourgeois democracy that's slowly been consumed by corporate power. Globally

[–] Cybermass@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah literally, this same thing can be said about every country on earth. The only places where corporations haven't infected the government are ones like Afghanistan that have no strong corporations.

[–] Jaximus@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Haha true that. This was inevitable btw, the further capitalism develops the more its will absorb everything. Religion is done for, community is done for, bourgie democracy is dying, next come nationality I guess, the environment is already compromised. It truly is a vampiric black hole.

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[–] CAPSLOCKFTW@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Thought this would be about the US

[–] fomo_erotic@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

"Oh no. Thats disgusting. Which one? There are like.. sooo many."

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[–] radicalpikachu@vlemmy.net 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Reminder that Reddit still hosts the largest hatful subreddit that is r/IndiaSpeaks and nothing ever happens to it.

The content in the sub ranges from Islamophobia, death threats, misogyny and homophobia.

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[–] biscuitsofdeath@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

an Indian version of fascism.

Lol, what? Isn't fascism the same across the globe?

[–] makr_alland@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not really. Every instance of fascism has been really good at adapting to a local culture and political environment. Just to cite the major ones from 1930s Europe, there are clear differences between nazism (German fascism), Francoism (Spanish fascism) and Italian fascism (the original).

It'd be absurd for fascism in the USA to parade with swastikas, pagan symbols and Hugo Boss uniforms. An American fascism would use stars and stripes, crosses and… red baseball caps, I guess. In the same way, Modi's Indian fascism uses Indian iconography to maintain power.

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

Fascism also exploits grievances, much like other populist movements. I'm not very familiar with Spanish and Italian fascism, but the Nazis had a whole stack of grievances. Many were complete nonsense, but that never stopped anyone.

[–] Dave_r@reddthat.com 9 points 1 year ago

Give Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents a look. Wilkerson's got well researched links between India's caste system, U.S. Slavery, and the German Nazis. I was really surprised to learn that the Nazis researched national policies to find out how to best institute 'purity'. They ended up modeling theirs after the United States.

Fascims might not look the same every where, but it shares more than was obvious to me...

[–] szczur@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

Not really, it always adapts to local needs and shares the same oppressive memes, sometimes taking some and leaving some behind.

[–] szczur@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't really feel representative democracy falls into a category of democracy anymore.

[–] AndyGHK@lemmy.zip 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In our modern age, it really doesn’t. We have the infrastructure to make direct democracy possible, we just lack the political will to take responsibility for our communities and vote and be informed as much as that would require. As humans, not as a nation in particular.

[–] Skyrmir@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 1 year ago

We have the technology, but not the social skills. Most of America doesn't know their next door neighbors, let alone their community. We have a lot of steps to go before direct democracy is the best solution.

[–] bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

You want to know what's truly disturbing? The previous Australian Federal government did many of these same things too, or worse.

It seems true democracy has fallen out of favour.

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[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (19 children)

It's as if western style liberal democracy is an inherently unstable political system.

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[–] aragon@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When a party form a government on its own i.e without any coalition partners, they tend to target the opposition with all the arsenal be it CBI , ED and sometimes even the Judiciary. However the elections are fair and impartial for the most part. Just recently, BJP got its ass handed to it in a state election in Karnataka. They may win the federal election again but it is hardly a death of democracy. Their grip on states have been slipping and once it goes out, they will most likely lose the federal government as well. The same happened during Indira Gandhi era. The same is happening now. Democracy survived then and will survive now. I am not saying there is no assault on democratic institutions in India. But they have proved resilient enough to prevent a democratic collapse as portrayed in this article.

[–] Admetus@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

And it's already been pointed out that the actions of Trump and Bolsonaro mirror the same undermining strategy but failed. Still, Modi controls nearly all the media now so it's going to be stronger propaganda than Fox News.

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[–] cyd@vlemmy.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

International commentators can't seem to wrap their minds around the idea that Modi's BJP is having so much success because Indians, on the whole, like them and think they're doing a pretty good job.

Americans in particular tend to think that if you don't have two equally strong parties duking it out over 50/50 nailbiter elections, it's not democracy. But plenty of postwar and postcolonial democracies end up with dominant parties, without falling into dictatorship. In Japan, for example, the LDP has held power for something like 95% of the time since WWII, and it's a pretty healthy democracy.

[–] kurosawaa@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

The LDP has never had opposition leaders arrested. Just because they are popular doesn't mean that they aren't anti-democratic. Democracy requires free elections, which cannot exist if a significant minority is being actively suppressed.

[–] LibertyLizard 10 points 1 year ago

Dictators can also be popular, but that doesn’t make their systems of government democratic. I would suggest you read the article if you haven’t because it discusses both Modi’s popularity and the specific actions he has taken that undermine Indian democracy.

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