this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2023
94 points (99.0% liked)

Mildly Interesting

17388 readers
261 users here now

This is for strictly mildly interesting material. If it's too interesting, it doesn't belong. If it's not interesting, it doesn't belong.

This is obviously an objective criteria, so the mods are always right. Or maybe mildly right? Ahh.. what do we know?

Just post some stuff and don't spam.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

...the Mbabaram word for "dog" was in fact dúg, pronounced almost identically to the Australian English word...

top 11 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

To expand on this, in linguistics, when you notice a similarity between two words, there are three main possibilities.

  1. Common ancestry. The English word "house" and the German word "Haus" are obviously similar, and this is because they both descend from Proto-West-Germanic, with the source word being something like hūs around 1700 years ago or so.
  2. Borrowing. The English word "chef" is a direct loan from French "chef". It's pretty common for the borrowed word to specialize its meaning somewhat. French "chef" merely means "boss", while English "chef" specifically means "boss of a kitchen" (who's probably from France because no one wants to eat English cooking).
  3. Pure coincidence. This dog example is the classic one, but it really does happen, and not exactly infrequently. There are only so many sounds in human language, and across all languages, you're bound to get some random collisions. There is the special case where both words originate from a phenomenon like onomatopoeia or infant language ability (think mama, papa, etc).

The first two are fun because they're evidence of some kind of historical connection, which can sometimes stretch back further than the historical record. Sanskrit in India having a lot of similarities to Greek and Latin is the classical example there (and controversial if you're a Hindu nationalist). Coincidence can be disappointing when you think you've discovered some exciting historical connection, but the dangerous bias that has to be kept in mind is that generally, if you're looking for something, you will find it.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You forgot universals, words that wind up with a common derivation in a lot of languages. For example, "Mama" is a common word for mother in completely unrelated languages, because it's derived from babies frequently making mmm sounds first.

Also animal names derived from the sounds said animals make IIRC Crow is an example of this

[–] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

I kinda touched on that under coincidence, which is admittedly stretching it a bit, but I also think "universals" is a bit of an overly strong name for the phenomenon.

But it is true that there are some underlying elements of human biology and psychology that can cause some interesting effects as well, though I think people have a tendency to exaggerate them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect

This is a pretty classic example of it.

[–] Iunnrais@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

I love the analysis done by zompist, here: https://www.zompist.com/chance.htm

In summary, having a few purely coincidental similar words is extremely likely. In fact, if there were no such similarities that would be weirder, from a mathematical perspective… especially (but not necessarily) if you stretch what might be considered a “similar meaning”, which people often do.

[–] zzzz@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The similarity is a complete coincidence.

That's what they want you to think.

[–] Downcount@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

That's what they want you to think.

That's what they want you to think.

[–] LackingC10H12N2O@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think there was an entire episode of Ancient Aliens that delved into this subject. Dogon tribe, dog, Sirius star, dog star, etc.

They noted the word 'dog' was spelled and spoken similarly by many ancient cultures across the world, but nobody knows why because the cultures had no contact with eachother.

..or something like that.

Edit: Season 14 episode 4.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Oh fer tha luvva dog.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago
[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How? Dingos aren’t dogs, so how did they have a word for a species that they hadn’t seen before colonisation?

Interesting question, I hadn't thought about that. I assume they mean dingos.

"Australia’s Indigenous community has had a long relationship with dogs, dating back to the dog’s ancestor, the dingo. Dingo fossils in Australia date back thousands of years, and the first British settlers in 1788 recorded dingoes living with Indigenous Australians"

https://outbacktails.com/blogs/news/the-important-role-dogs-play-in-indigenous-communities-celebrating-naidoc-week-2022

And dingos are a dog breed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingo