this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2023
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Antiwork

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A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.

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This server is no longer working, and we had to move.

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Date Created: June 21, 2023

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[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 123 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I decided to look up some numbers and do some math.

So the CEO earns 362x the average employee at GM. Basically if they took the CEO’s pay and redidsteubuted it, they could double the pay of 362 lucky workers at GM. Or take twice as many workers as that and increase their pay by 50%.

But how many workers are there and how far will this CEO’s pay go?

GM has 167,000 employees. Collectively, their pay totals 167,000x the salary of the average employee. Very basic.

Now let’s add the CEO’s pay to that sum: we are now up to a sum of money equal to 167,362x the average salary.

And if we distribute that amongst all the employees, that’s:

167,362/167,000

Get out your calculator and you’ll see that this would fund a two-tenths of one percent raise for all employees. That’s 0.002%

The pay is very unfair. But we should be realistic that the CEO is one person and their fat salary doesn’t actually go very far in terms of worker raises.

Let’s do the math in reverse: to give all GM employees just a 2% raise would cost 9.2x the CEO’s salary. And the workers want a 40% raise over 4 years.

I hope they get it. I believe that money is there and currently going to the entire executive layer, the board, and shareholders. But when anyone tries to oversimplify and it make it all about the CEO’s salary, I cringe a bit because it really isn’t that meaningful a sum of money, unfair as it may be.

We should be looking at profit or better EBITDA and showing how easily it could be used to raise worker pay.

[–] madcaesar@lemmy.world 80 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's not about taking the CEO's pay and redistributing it, like some game of lotto.

The point is that the culture and structure of the company is geared towards rewarding the dickhead at the top, for squeezing their workers.

The companies don't see their workers as assets but instead as adversaires that are to be exploited and paid as little as possible, no matter the cost to quality, loyalty or morale.

Somehow there is no money for the workers, yet the car prices have exploded and the board makes shit loads of money....

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You’re right. I’m only saying that Robert Reich’s framing “there’s money for” this not that isn’t great: it’s like saying “Oh so we have money for a new blender but not a car???”

Your framing is superior

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Tbph this is why Reich has a reputation for kind of populist pseudoscience. Tries to bank on sounding like he's pushing an "economic justice" angle but a ton of what he says doesn't really hold water. It's actually really annoying cause you can't push for a correct take without people just automatically assuming you're defending CEOs and megacorps.

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[–] geogle@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

I click for the outrage, but stay for the rational discussion.

[–] Fraylor@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

While the CEO salary is often the talking point, the bigger number is often the stock buybacks.

[–] kyle@lemm.ee 64 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Did basic digging, no idea where the tweet's numbers come from.

Ford CEO Jim Farley received ~$21mil in total compensation in 2022, mostly in stock awards. Source

Average salary of Ford employee: ~$67k a year, derived from $37k in the bottom 10th percentile and $120k in the top 90th. Source

Which gives a ratio more like 313 to 1.

[–] LemmyFeed@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Lol so even higher than stated in the pic

[–] MashedPotatoJeff@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Another thing about automotive (and probably most industries) is that large portions of the labor are contracted through agencies. Even most entry level engineers are contract now. So that figure doesn't include many of the lower paid positions in these facilities.

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stock awards aren't exactly normal compensation, though. If everyone got equal stock in the company, everyone would be incentivized to work towards the company's success.

[–] Acters@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So why are most employees given salary or hourly pay without stock rewards? Shouldn't the company want to incentivize employees for the company's success? I understand there are a lot of people who defend their companies or corporations without much investment incentives given. I still don't see why it is not a common benefit to give.

[–] 1984@lemmy.today 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I will never care about any company I work for. They can give me stock, sure, but I know it's not my company and I don't want to work harder for one extra peanut. I rather get time off then. :)

Give everyone 6 weeks vacations and 4 day work weeks to start with. It's more than fair. Let people have time off and enjoy their lives. But not going to happen.

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[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Who the hell is Stellantis? Checks web

Who the hell though renaming Chrysler to a misspelling of a Paradox 5X space game was a good marketing move?

[–] happyhippo@feddit.it 18 points 1 year ago

Chrysler was bankrupt.

Stellantis is much more than Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge and RAM.

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[–] SCB@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (27 children)

365x the average workers salary divided by 150,000 workers.

Like the math is written out.

The company can pay more for sure, but Reich should know enough to look at these publicly traded companies' cash-on-hand.

As an example:

According to Ford's latest financial reports the company has $42.82 B in cash and cash equivalents.

CEO pay needs a cap but not because workers are paid less. CEO pay is not that big a drain on these companies' resources.

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[–] GreatGrapeApe@reddthat.com 24 points 1 year ago (19 children)

If we took the 29 million the GM CEO was paid in 2021 and broke that up equally across the roughly 167,000 employees they each get an extra $173-174 dollars for the year.

They are getting paid too much but their salary isn't enough to correct the shortages in worker pay. There are other places that need to be looked at in addition to CEO pay to find the money workers deserve.

[–] RGB3x3@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

CEO pay, stock buybacks, likely a large company savings, all the C-suite executives, and more im sure.

[–] uid0gid0@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

One of the UAW's demands is $2 per employee for every 1 million in stock buybacks.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

likely a large company saving

This is what should be talked about. Cash-on-hand is public knowledge of publicly traded companies.

Ford has north of $40B in the bank.

[–] twistypencil@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Now do that for the president, vp, directors, and board, hell the whole Suite is over payed, not just the ceo

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[–] Vaggumon@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

CEO's are only good for one thing and one thing only. A balanced diet.

[–] LemmyFeed@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They're mostly fat. Make sure to also eat plenty of veggies

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[–] superduperenigma@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Out of curiosity, how is worker pay being defined here? Is it just average salary of non-management employees?

[–] Badass_panda@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No... generally, it is the salary of the lowest paid worker

[–] protist@mander.xyz 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] guyrocket@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

That is a common metric: lowest paid worker compared to CEO. There have been many failed attempts to legislate limits on this ratio.

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[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

"We don't have the money, because I want the money."

[–] InputZero@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Remember the CEO is the second most powerful position in a public Corporation. The major Shareholders and director boards are the top. The CEO is there to take crap so Shareholders and the board don't have to. CEOs are the embodiment of corpo-shilling but they're not the top.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

All three should be seized and the stock redistributed to the workers. Workers should own the companies they work for.

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[–] solstice@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I blame the board of directors and shareholders. The ceo is hired by the board the make money for the shareholders. I think shareholders need to realize their ROI is lower than they think it is, because of the externalities that are not reflected in balance sheets and income statements. But of course that'll never happen until something calamitous causes it to.

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[–] transigence@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

They could if any of them made decent products. Out of all of the products that all of those companies offer, the only things worth half a shit are Ford's F-150 and GM's Vortec engine line-up.

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