No shit, we've known this for literal decades. You can get addicted to pretty much anything.
this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2023
67 points (100.0% liked)
Science of Cooking
1119 readers
1 users here now
Welcome to c/cooking @ Mander.xyz!
We're focused on cooking and the science behind how it changes our food. Some chemistry, a little biology, whatever it takes to explore a critical aspect of everyday life.
Background Information:
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
There’s a big difference between something being psychologically addictive, and something being chemically addictive.
Like, yea, you can technically get addicted to anything. But there’s a massive difference between getting addicted to, say, working out, and getting addicted to nicotine.
So food being chemically addictive is not something that’s been known for decades, in fact it’s been a common topic of debate.
Idk. My wife must workout or she is irritated all day. Working out can be like a drug.
That’s still a different type of addiction from something like cigarettes.
Well, that explains me.
I really identify with this article as I'm addicted to chips. When I stop I get awful withdrawal symptoms for two weeks, and it takes about two months for me to not feel the need any more. However eventually I fall back into it again because I underestimate it. I've often wished that there was some kind of external control for this stuff.
This sounds like keto flu. When people enter ketosis for the first time they have serious withdrawal symptoms, due to electrolyte imbalances. When you reduce your carbohydrate intake, your body is changing how it retains salt, which changes fluid levels. Which can lead to basically hangover. It's usually addressed with electrolytes.
There is an external control, if you do keto consistently, the cravings go away. Not the habits the cravings. Breaking the behavioral habits is a lifelong journey
I remember not eating that garbage for a whole year. I accidentally ended up in the chips section in the supermarket and I remember feeling so silly. I used to go through so much trouble to go to this place, think about the flavors and which one to buy, and waste money on it. At that point I couldn't possibly imagine doing something like that.
So electrolytes. Chips is also super salty, maybe that is related as well? Salt goes down, fluid goes down. So what do you recommend to get extra electrolytes?
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/supplements
If you Google it you'll get a thousand opinions. There's companies that sell electrolyte replacement drinks, Gatorade without the sugar basically. Or like little electrolyte mixins. Like LMNT (pronounced element).
But all that fancy stuff isn't for me. I just use light salt, lo salt. You can find in most grocery stores. Low salt salt basically. It's roughly half potassium half sodium. I pour that into some hot water about 1 g. Mix it. Then dilute it with cold water. And then drink it. It tastes like salt. This is the absolute cheapest way to do it. I do this twice per day. So two grams per day.
Some people use bouillon cubes.
I'll look for it. Maybe I'll just eat some salty food like chilli or ramen.
One time it was crazy hot and I biked around true whole day in the sun. Eventually I started getting dizzy and like I would faint. I ate pure salt from a store and felt better. Well who knows maybe it was the airco or placebo. But who knows maybe I also stopped eating junk that week.
When you exert yourself you sweat more which means you lose more electrolytes. You absolutely were low on the electrolytes.
Electrolytes do a lot of things, but the body uses them to move water around. So sweat uses electrolytes. That's why sweat taste salty.
It could have been a combination of moderate heat stroke, and low electrolytes. The salt definitely helped you
Ah is that the osmosis thing where the imbalance in charge causes liquids to diffuse across the membranes? I also remember that it's important for action potential in neurons.
Thanks a lot. I'll make a plan for tackling it.
This is an excellent article.
The hormonal model of obesity fits into this paper very well. Basically the hormonal model says the addiction is not to food, it's to carbohydrates and sugar. Carbohydrates and sugar increase blood sugar levels, which increase insulin levels. Which puts the body into dysfunction. It doesn't matter how much food you're eating, it matters how much insulin your body is producing. Insulin is a massive superstar hormone that affects the entire body.
So a lot of the addiction and withdrawal people are talking about is sugar withdrawal, blood sugar dropping, and the body having to adapt to a new energy source. I. E. Fat burning / ketosis.
I could eat pad-thai everyday.
Same. If I could only eat 1 cuisine for the rest of my life, it would probably be Thai food.
I love Thai food, but ugh, so oily
There is a lot of Thai food that is not oily.
Basil pork, larb, spicy mango salad, etc.
I think a lot of people making jokes about stuff like this may struggle to understand what addiction feels like from the inside and how intensity of desire is not always a function of withdrawal severity.
The popular image of addiction is something like a twitchy looking person begging for the next hit. This is rare, even for extremely addictive drugs with severe withdrawal.
Often addiction manifests internally as a fascination with something. When I smoked it was rare to not be on some level thinking about the logistics of when I would next light up. I also over emphasised the positive effects (many of which in hindsight were merely alleviating withdrawal which is hilarious) and diminished the negative ones.
As someone with a sweet tooth it's not so different to how I feel about treats. It's difficult not to think of grabbing one when shopping, I typically feel a desire after dinner, I often "cave" if something is around or eat it without much intention.
Contrast this with antidepressants, which can cause debilitating months long withdrawal. Yet when stopping SNRIs I had no powerful desires to consume them, despite knowing that doing so would make it stop feeling like my soul was being sucked out the back of my head.
There are reasons to be cautious about lots of research like this, pharma companies would love to sell a solution for example, but it's not outlandish. Nicotine is addictive because it makes your brain light up in certain ways, there is nothing special about the molecule except it does that thing (well and crosses the BBB). If there are other ways to make brains light up in similar ways without a specific chemical receptor it stands to reason that under certain circumstances addiction may manifest.
Am I the only person that gets a food high?
There's a line in the article that says food doesn't give a "high" like drugs do.
But I get literal highs off of food sometimes. Particularly beef, some fish, and other high protein meals like those. Typically, it will only happen when the meat is very well browned, a significant "crust" from the Maillard reaction, though it will occasionally happen when there's an acidic or slightly sweet side dish.
Salmon with sweet potato does it almost every time. Tuna steaks do it fairly reliably. Steaks will more often than other beef meals, but even burgers can do it.
Am I that fucking weird here?
It's a literal high. I get slightly dizzy, euphoric, giggly, and there's a distinct sense of well being and connection to the world. It isn't just being satisfied with a good meal, it's an change in mood, thinking and overall perceptions.
There is a bakery selling these cookies, I thought they're putting drugs in them. Cuz every time I ate them I felt euphoric, and my heart race of it. I was definitely getting a food high from those cookies
You are not alone. I always just figured it was like a dopamine high or something similar.
Breathatarians intensify.
Don’t get addicted to water , it will take control of you.
But ofc food is addictive, it’s substances, overeating it, that’s a whole different argument.
I've been addicted to food for at least 30 years. I don't remember being a baby but I heard I ate food back then too. Not sure if at this point I can ever quit
Well, you gotta consume it multiple times every day or your body stops functioning, and you get sick and die. If there's a better simpler more succinct description of an addiction I don't know what it is. Same goes for oxygen, water, and sleep, those motherfuckers.
Well, you gotta consume it multiple times every day or your body stops functioning, and you get sick and die.
That sounds like withdrawal symptoms to me...
You can’t quit food if you don’t quit cold turkey.
Wait until they hear about oxygen