A place for discussion of all things cyberpunk (not primarily Cyberpunk 2077)
A crew of low-lifes working with an android in a dirty old spaceship for a faceless corporation that treats them as expendable.
Obviously the movie is really scifi horror, but it does hit a lot of cyberpunk themes. So do you consider Alien to be cyberpunk? If you don't, what would need to change to make it cyberpunk?
I usually include a trailer for the movies I reference but come on, it's Alien. You already know about this movie.
It's streaming on Hulu if you haven't watched it recently.
I'd say it's a space horror movie with some cyberpunk elements. Space movies and cyberpunk have a lot of overlap, but they're two separate things in my mind.
To me, it feels like something I'd call Cassettepunk. Basically the point in time where computers were using magnetic tapes and floppies, but extended into the future. The tech doesn't really get any better in terms of detail, but it gets more screens, which mostly are CRT
I think the main thing that doesn't make it cyberpunk to me is that it's inside the corporate machine, rather than outside of it.
So even though they don't particularly like or trust the corporation, the fact that they're employees of a major corporation is enough for you to say no? That's an interesting distinction. So if they owned their own ship and were hired as mercs by the corporation to pick up some unknown artifact would you consider it cyberpunk?
So even though they don’t particularly like or trust the corporation, the fact that they’re employees of a major corporation is enough for you to say no?
I mean, the world/setting could absolutely have cyberpunk stories, but the movie is centred on corporate staff, and followed up by a story about the military response to the loss of corporate assets. That's a story you can tell in a cyberpunk setting, when the main characters are dealing with that shit, not part of it
When you're inside the machine, you've got the cyber part, but not the punk part
So if they owned their own ship and were hired as mercs by the corporation to pick up some unknown artifact would you consider it cyberpunk?
Potentially. Cowboy Bebop could be considered cyberpunk. A shift in tone, and Firefly could be cyberpunk, so yeah, you could absolutely tell a cyberpunk story with that setup in the Alien universe.
You could also tell a cyberpunk story if they start as corporate employees, but end up outside the system and on their own as part of the story...
I never thought of this question before now, but your answer explains my initial reaction. I was thinking “actually, yeah, Alien does seem kinda cyberpunk, but not quite…” Until I read your response, I couldn’t put my finger on why.
If the story was changed only slightly, and this was the crew of an independent ship that got screwed and betrayed by a corporation, then my answer would be an unqualified YES.
I would! It's early, and I don't think it was made to be cyberpunk. But the themes are there - the small blue-collar crew contrasted with the absurdly powerful corporation, and the distrust between them. The way the company casually turns their ship against them. And the aesthetics are there - Alien was one of the films that set the standard for used future aesthetics. I'd say cyberpunk for me is a mix of themes and aesthetics, but I'm good with including settings as well - the world of Alien and Aliens is cyberpunk, and I'm okay with calling a story set in it cyberpunk as long as it has some of the other elements. I don't think I require the characters to be punks, I'd say a lot of cyberpunk characters aren't.
Alien (the creature) is the work of H. R. Giger, a biomechanical artist.
Biomechanical art is closely related to cyberpunk so I would answer yes to your question.
In the other hand, I have never considered Alien as cyberpunk.
I think it kind of defines the sci-fi horror genre
Everything is cyberpunk if you brave enough 😁
There's more biopunk here than cyber.
It's set on a spaceship... I'm not saying you can't have cyberpunk in space, but it takes a lot more than just a big corporation to turn a monster horror into cyberpunk.
Aliens, the sequel has more of the aesthetic I guess, and which sequel was that with the crazy doctor... That one might fit a tad more but it still has more bio in it.
Interesting, I would've said Aliens was less cyberpunk due to the military being the main characters. The first Alien is the only one that centers around a group of nobodies, which I think makes it more of a candidate to be cyberpunk.
Nope. Even proto-cyberpunk would be a stretch. The mere presence of corporations does not cyberpunk make
Kinda, loosely, not really.
It's certainly related, and Alien is richer for the connections, but no.
Cyberpunk for me has always been primarily terrestrial, or at least planetside. Off-world can exist, but it should probably remain somewhere off to stage left (i.e. the protagonist should remain grounded).
I know Neuromancer has a space scene, but it feels jarring and doesn't fit well with the rest of the book. I love space, but for whatever reason, it doesn't mix with cyberpunk for me.
I guess I'm willing to accept space in cyberpunk as long as it's dirty and broken down and not military-based. For example, I think the belters in The Expanse series could be the basis for a cyberpunk story. The Expanse isn't cyberpunk, but I think you could easily tell a cyberpunk story in that world.
I was thinking of the Expanse as I wrote that. The Belt maybe feels closer to cyberpunk because the Belters are trapped. They can move around in space, but can never go planetside.
I think that's maybe the crux of it: Characters in cyberpunk are trapped. By circumstance, definitely, but I think there's a physical element as well. Sure you can go anywhere you want in the Sprawl, you can even leave and go to Chiba City. But they're not meaningfully different. You can trade one urban hellscape for another, but you can't escape. The life you lead is very close to the life you will always lead. Interplanetary travel removes that limitation. Being a space trucker might not be better, but it's different. That's too fancy for a cyberpunk protagonist.
The Churn, one of the Expanse novellas, is cyberpunk. It's Amos' backstory in Baltimore. Of course then he makes it off-planet and it's no longer cyberpunk.
Totally agree. That's also why I dislike any cyberpunk story that has a revolution/rebellion in it. Any attempt to actually change/fix the system goes against the cyberpunk themes of how futile that is. Cyberpunk stories are about trying to survive with the hand you've been dealt, not enacting societal change.
I don't know that I mind a doomed revolution, as long as it avoids or subverts themes like heroism.
I could also see a revolution inconveniencing the protagonist.
But yes, being hopeful for things to change at the societal level is probably too much.
It's also worth noting that execution trumps most other factors. A Scanner Darkly reads as cyberpunk to me, despite missing a lot of the aesthetics of the genre. Infinite Jest also reads as cyberpunk, even though most of the sci-fi elements are hiding most of the time. That last one might be a hot take, I haven't been able to find anyone else talking about it as cyberpunk.
I thought about that, but it's on the moon and somehow that doesn't feel like it counts. Maybe "interplanetary space travel" is the dividing line
Interplanetary space travel exists in Blade Runner, Judge Dredd, Cyberpunk, etc and they're all Cyberpunk universes.
Transmet and Cowboy Bebop (I count this though I know not everyone does) too.