this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2023
82 points (88.7% liked)

News

23376 readers
2315 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

It was early this summer, before Americans started crossing the Atlantic to savor the sweetness of European life. Prices are very much affordable for them there, and the Wall Street Journal gave the reason as being Europe's inexorable impoverishment: "Europeans are facing a new economic reality, one they haven't experienced in decades. They are becoming poorer," wrote the business daily. In 2008, the eurozone and the US had equivalent gross domestic products (GDP) at current prices of $14.2 trillion and $14.8 trillion respectively (€13.1 trillion and €13.6 trillion). Fifteen years on, the eurozone's GDP is just over $15 trillion, while US GDP has soared to $26.9 trillion.

As a result, the GDP gap is now 80%! The European Centre for International Political Economy, a Brussels-based think-tank, published a ranking of GDP per capita of American states and European countries: Italy is just ahead of Mississippi, the poorest of the 50 states, while France is between Idaho and Arkansas, respectively 48th and 49th. Germany doesn't save face: It lies between Oklahoma and Maine (38th and 39th). This topic is muted in France – immediately met with counter-arguments about life expectancy, junk food, inequality, etc. It even irks the British, who are just as badly off, as evidenced in August by a Financial Times column wondering, "Is Britain really as poor as Mississippi?"

Europe has been (once again) stalling since Covid-19, as it does after every crisis. The Old Continent had been respected as long as Germany held out. But Germany is now a shadow of its former self, hit by Russian gas cuts and China's tougher stance on its automotive and machine tool exports. The Americans don't care about these issues. They have inexhaustible energy resources, as the producers of 20% of the world's crude oil, compared with 12% for Saudi Arabia and 11% for Russia. China, to them, is a subcontracting zone, not an outlet for high-value-added products. The triumph of Tesla is making Mercedes and BMW look outdated.

all 32 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 126 points 1 year ago (2 children)

France is between Idaho and Arkansas,

...and...

Germany doesn’t save face: It lies between Oklahoma and Maine

Then shame on the USA, not Europe. So even with such a lower GDP European nations are providing high quality social services and security to their citizens, why these US states citizens fall father behind.

[–] Turkey_Titty_city@kbin.social 53 points 1 year ago (1 children)

GDP is a useless metric. Most USA GDP grown is from stupid shit like housing prices being super inflated.

[–] Poggervania@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

And I think the only reason some of the US states even compare to some European countries is more or less the US economic brute-forcing a higher QoL versus actually planning and spending money wisely which seems more common in Europe and the UK.

The former can’t last forever and will hit a wall once something gets costly enough, the latter should be able to scale decently well as population grows.

[–] JohnnyCanuck@lemmy.ca 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Is the massive growth making people happier, healthier?

[–] Alto@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Im sure it's making the very few people who actually receive that wealth happier.

The common man ain't seeing a dime of it though, so the rest of us ain't

[–] superduperenigma@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Is it really though? It's not like their quality of life is actually improving with more money (at this point they have access to whatever they want, how could it improve any more no matter how much they leech from the rest of society). They're just perpetually trying to make their capitalist "score" go higher and higher in a desperate attempt to fill the gargantuan black hole that exists where their empathy should be.

[–] hypnotoad__@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Fatter, yes!

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is yet another proof that economics as a study really has no connection to real world.

[–] Hexophile@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

It really depends on the type and field of economics you’re looking at. Macro and micro are very very different fields. There are also a lot of different ways to present these facts. In general gdp means very little for normal people, and something like the Gini coefficient at least gets a little closer to a metric that actually represents the economic health of a country.

[–] gastationsushi@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

I live in Oklahoma, apparently better than Germany. Out-of-state corporations buy off our politicians. This means they get insane tax cuts among other sketchier tax schemes. Having low pay employees is one of our main draws for new businesses. Unemployment here is very low, but there isn't much of a reason to stay in state when you are looking for a job. Our education system is getting worse and worse, good teachers leave the state every year and the leaders are doing jack shit to retain them.

[–] guyrocket@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This article, while interesting, seems a bit sensational.

Bottom line for me as an American: Is it a good time to vacay in the Eurozone?

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 5 points 1 year ago

Generally, yeah. I would avoid the summer, though. Europe is not equipped for high temperatures.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It really is. I did a small one this summer and the US dollar went far. Third time in Germany and had a blast. Beer is everywhere there! Imagine walking into a restaurant and getting a craft beer quality drink served to you for $1.50. I can't get an IPA for that price even at my local liquor store.

Belgium is next on the list. I keep running into people from there telling me how underrated it is.

[–] AnagrammadiCodeina@feddit.it 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is a SUPERDOUBT. I seriously doubt the price was that even for a shitty Heineken/becks/dreher beer. We had inflation growing almost everywhere (except Switzerland but they simply keep repeating it to themselves, hotel prices are at least 15-25% more expensive than pre-covid) Also, euro/dollar exchange rate is now the same as it was pre-covid

I'm not saying you cant find good deals but that beer price in a restaurant is unrealistic.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Don't know what to say. This is what I paid for house beer at 2 different places in Stuttgart. I guess I got really lucky?

[–] Bye@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I was about to say you need to look at gdp per capita not just gdp, but I googled it and the eurozone has about the same population as the USA.

With such a large gdp difference, looks like Americans will be doing a lot of travel to Europe, and even more Europeans may be coming over here for jobs. It seems like half the people I work with are from Germany.

[–] Vormadikter@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I am notsurprised. I am from Germany. The salary for the job i am doing has been stalling the last 10 years. Even though i am "doing a career", my salary raises are weak compared to inflation. I am in middle management of a big company and cant afford a fckn house, while people on this position 20 years ago have 3 now. I hate it.

[–] CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

Hate to tell you this, it’s no different here in the states. Wages have not been remotely kept track with inflation and home ownership is out of reach of most of the population

[–] Turkey_Titty_city@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

that's true of everywhere in the developed economies.

we value assets more than we value labor. so assets get more expensive and labor is cheaper. and since the rich are getting richer at an unprecedented rate, it's not going to change unless we have a serious social collapse.

[–] Bye@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is mostly true here as well. From what my German coworkers tell me (and from what I see in job postings), salaries here are generally higher, even after paying for medical care etc. this is in the sciences but I’ve heard it’s true in other fields as well.

[–] Norgur@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, they are higher but many calculations say that the end earnings ppl have after all deductions are higher in Germany than in the US. So Americans get payed more but go home with less disposable income. I am no economist though, so... Idk

[–] nakal@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What you want to compare is how common people are living in a coutry and how much they can actually buy. That's what PPP is for ("purchasing power parity").

[–] Norgur@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, that's the wrong metric here. PPP compares prices not earnings for the sake of establishing a standardized "currency" to compare against. It doesn't say how many of the compared products can be bought with a median income or anything.

[–] nakal@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Ok, you're right. You'd also need the median income to have an objective overview how people live in the country.

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No I think you're on to something with the per capita point.

US population went from 304million to 333million in that time (+29 million).

Euro population went from 334million to 344 million (+10 million).

3x the population growth probably helps nominal GDP numbers look better than they really are comparatively. It's not the whole story but it's some of it.

[–] omgitsaheadcrab@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Time to get a US remote contracting role then I guess

[–] Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh, you’re mistaking GDP for money going to workers here. Our (federal) minimum wage is still just $7.25/hr (€6.75/hr) and more than 1/3 of the states honor that. I think that’s even lower than Portugal. And there’s no healthcare with that (or any) wage/contract job.

Oh, sure, you can make money here, but it almost certainly won’t be as an average employee.

[–] LufyCZ@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

No one's remote contracting out to the US for minimum wage, from Europe at least.

I imagine they're most likely talking about IT and related fields, where this is a legit strategy

[–] MindSkipperBro12@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I can now cope more and seethe less about our country getting completely dwarfed by the Euros.