this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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Fedigrow

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I noticed today an occurence of a user complaining about Lemmy being worse then Reddit. The modlogs shows how toxic they are. When this was pointed out, the user deletes their account

https://web.archive.org/web/20241217101003/https://sopuli.xyz/post/20276017?scrollToComments=true

Deleted account: https://kbin.melroy.org/u/Pyrin

This seems to address the question that comes up once in a while "a public modlog is only useful for mods" (https://feddit.org/post/4920887/3235141), while we can see from this example that it can also be useful for toxic users.

As you may know, !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com is a community dedicated to calling out power tripping mods.

Should we consider having a similar community for toxic users?

There is already !fediverselore@lemmy.ca, but I feel like the "lore" is more about large-scale events (like the cats wave recently) than specific users events.

Edit: Updated the title, and put the emphasis on creating a community to call out toxic users rather than "dunking" on the users that was banned.

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[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 4 points 1 day ago (9 children)

I don't want to come off all self-righteous as in "PieFed has that already"... but OTOH it's relevant that, yeah, PieFed has something for that already.😄 It is described at https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/, and I think its way too sensitive atm, labeling users of comics in particular as potentially troublesome bc they post more than comment, but anyway it seems relevant here as an attempt to do what you are saying: to allow for some measure of an account's "reputation" across the Fediverse, similar to what those aforementioned communities do irt mods to let people know about stuff that they may find pertinent as they make decisions about what to do about it - like not post to certain communities and instead help others grow. In short it's a tool that helps shorten the learning curve rather than make each person have to do all that work all entirely on their own.

So someone downvotes twice as often as they upvote?

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Someone has twice as many heavily-downvoted comments as positive or neutral? Also a paddling. It also helps provide additional choices beyond merely a moderator's power to "remove vs. allow" - one day a user could perhaps make their own thresholds, or like automatically collapse (to deemphasize, but while still retaining) a comment from such a user. Or not - I have some of that turned OFF at PieFed, but it's awesome that it's there if someone were to want that.

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Someone has a brand-new account merely hours old? That's NOT a paddling, but it is worth its own unique icon to let recipients know that they are dealing with a newborn (ofc they could be an alt) who may not realize how the Fediverse works.

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[–] Quill7513 3 points 1 day ago

oh i recently had an interaction with this person. i genuinely felt they needed to go outside

[–] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I complain about the same thing, actually, and get accused of the same thing. I don't know whether this was true for the person in this example, but the modlog severely lacks context, which is what I'm confronted with as I clash heavily with the extremists on this platform who constantly advocate for murder, mob rule, and genocide, or them simping for terrorist groups like Hamas.

Same thing happened on Reddit, just opposite spectrum, like them refusing to remove Nazi content, calls for genocide and violence against brown people & muslims. Lemmy has basically the same issue as Reddit, where power tripping mods are in full control of the narrative, and the modlog helps them because they can just scrub the evidence and then claim ridiculous removal or ban reasons. I got recently accused by another user for being a political troll like Linkerbaan (if you don't know, some Nazi shithead troll with the dumbest takes), even though mine and his reputation points (mbin) were literally polar opposites, since he was easily identifiable as a negative karma troll (something Reddit unfortunately made harder by capping their karma system at -100). All just because I have a firm principled stance against extremism. Their alleged proof was the modlog of my account, by directly comparing it to his. His account was older, but he also only had like 90 or so comments, while I'm at like 4700 and also tend to participate in politically loaded topics.

db0's community is laughable as well, because db0 himself is doing mod abuse and partially responsible for how my modlog looks like, since he's controlling so many communities (good old powermods, another issue imported from Reddit). He's accusing me of painting all leftist (which ironically would include myself) as terrorists or whatever. First example: https://i.imgur.com/Xy3rJ98.png I confronted him later where he tried to blame other mods, then other instance admins: https://i.imgur.com/QREZXgL.png A while ago I got banned on various communities that db0 moderates, for the same alleged accusation / spin, just because I said that the same people who glorify the murder of that asshole CEO, who now call for more killing, are the same people who also suck Hamas dick. Maybe you don't like my choice of words for those people, but that does not make me a troll. And just because the majority on this platform seemingly seems to swim in this extremist direction, does not mean I have to join that mindset too, just to fit in.

TLDR: This platform lacks nuance, just like Reddit. Probably worse than Reddit.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 1 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

But can't you see how you are hurting the cause that you are advocating for by using such language? I don't believe that you are a troll, yet you are using language that is troll-adjacent. I will give some examples.

This platform lacks nuance

Agreed.

, just like Reddit.

Less so I would argue, b/c the modlog does not "scrub the evidence" so much as it preserves it for those who want to see it. BTW being on Mbin you may not know, but a recent Lemmy update allowed people to click on the hamburger menu (3 ellipses) and see the entire modlog history for a particular comment - e.g. if it were removed, then unremoved, then removed again, etc. It's less difficult now than ever before to see EXACTLY what happened to a particular piece of content (again, on Lemmy, I doubt this works on Mbin).

Probably worse than Reddit.

This is hyperbole, emotional "feels like" hurt words, which you offered no actual evidence in support of, plus above I've just shown how it seems to many of us that the opposite is true? Yet you did not seem aware of those facts, so how are we to interpret your statements then - that Mbin is worse than Reddit, but that Lemmy can still be better? Note we can't speak to the entire "Fediverse" unless we also have experience with Mastodon, which I for one do not.

And there are so, SO MANY additional examples like that - e.g. I very much doubt that db0 literally "suck Hamas dick" (I mean even if he were to swing that way and thereby have the motive, the chances for that opportunity seem somewhat slim, on a global scale:-P).

You can do whatever you want. But so too can others? And yeah, many people aren't going to like your words. Maybe don't be so surprised then when they act on what they like/don't like in their own community, which they created and expend all of the effort to moderate? Instead, create your own, and then feel free to use whatever toxic words you you like inside of it. Although people can choose to defederate from it, so don't be surprised if they do - you do not get to tell others what to do.

Edit: lolz I misspelled hamberger:-P

[–] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 2 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

But can't you see how you are hurting the cause that you are advocating for by using such language? I don't believe that you are a troll, yet you are using language that is troll-adjacent.

I'm not sure how that example makes me sound like a troll? Both platforms are very extremistic and safespace forming. Both platforms will get you downvoted for disagreeing with a highly polarized / extremist viewpoint. I can see how my language used can rub people the wrong way, but it's specifically targeted towards the people I'm addressing. I know especially Americans are very sensitive about swear words, but that's not something I feel like I have to cater towards. I'm not gonna censor bad words just so someone feels less riled up, while the meaning behind it does not even change in any way.

Less so I would argue, b/c the modlog does not "scrub the evidence" so much as it preserves it for those who want to see it.

But you can't. If a mod bans me from his communities, I just see their reasoning, which may or may not be bullshit. I don't see the context that sparked that reaction. And for removed comments, I can't see them anymore either, because they get scrubbed on my end too. On Reddit you were at least able to still read your own comments - at least for mod removals, admin removals were similarly frustrating because this also made appeals extremely hard (try to remember a 3 months old comment that lands you a temp ban or something). Here I can't even make an appeal, I just have to take it.

BTW being on Mbin you may not know, but a recent Lemmy update allowed people to click on the hamburger menu (3 ellipses) and see the entire modlog history for a particular comment

I don't know if that is just for registered users to see but I don't see any pancake menu on Lemmy comments if I for example visit this thread on lemm.ee, but maybe that instance isn't updated yet. I don't really follow Lemmy updates. I'd love it if the modlogs would properly link to the offending comments or whatever though.

This is hyperbole

Granted, I can't speak for the current state of Reddit, I left during the big protests so maybe the current conflict in Israel & Palestine had similar effects there... But I have never seen so many people simping for literal terrorist groups like I did here, not even in the Nazi infested subreddits like /r/europe I've seen so many calls for violence and genocide. People here constantly make excuses for what those groups do towards Jews in Israel, and when I call them out, I am suddenly allegedly making excuses for Israel - which I don't even do. I constantly see people justifying the rape murder and torture of those people on the festival, I see people justifying Hezbollah rockets targeting civilians, I see constantly people calling for executions of more CEOs since that asshole got shot, along with the glorification of the killer. If you don't see that, then you may just decided to stay out of topics like that, but even then you'd likely should have seen memes going in that direction, or the drama of .world moderating such cases. I blocked SO many communities, specifically news related ones, along with the mods there for their mod abuse, because they not just refuse to moderate content like this or disinformation, but then threaten me for reporting it - and despite the endlessly long blocklist, I still see it everywhere. Reddit at least had a lot of normie subs, but Lemmy lacks a lot of those communities or has them in a very inactive state.

I very much doubt that db0 literally "suck Hamas dick"

If he bans me for calling out people who do, then I can only assume that he's of the same mindset. I don't know how else he would come to willfully spinning my comments like that around.

Instead, create your own

Hell no. That seemed already insane on Reddit, let alone here.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 2 points 22 hours ago

I don’t know if that is just for registered users to see but I don’t see any pancake menu on Lemmy comments if I for example visit this thread on lemm.ee, but maybe that instance isn’t updated yet.

You indeed have to be logged in

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[–] ogmios@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago

I've already got one mega-fan following my posts around this site. An entire community where they can network with others to promote my activities would be awesome!

[–] 1984@lemmy.today 1 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

This gives me a fun idea, scrape the modlog for ridiculous moderation and post the results.

Unfortunately only certain people would find it funny, most of them outside of Lemmy.. :)

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