this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2022
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United States | News & Politics

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The ‘Red Cup Rebellion’ Is Here as Starbucks Workers Launch Massive Strike (www.vice.com)
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[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

I don't understand these corporate wide unions. Let's say we develop the worlds most awesome union at starbucks then what? Starbucks is just a great place to work now? that's it? Not a food service union or baristas union? just starbucks? What happens if starbucks goes out of business no more union? So all this work was for nothing? the idea being that people will want to be an entry level starbucks employee for the rest of their life?

only about 300k people work for starbucks, and management isn't in the union right? so were talking maybe 100k people, in temporary jobs none of them plan to keep for very long. If they do stay they'll be promoted to management and then would therefore leave the union. Whats assistant manager take 1 year maybe 2 until youre promoted?

Not to mention luxury coffee shops being the most useless thing on planet earth. honestly how many people can tell the difference in a blind taste test between starbucks and freeze dried instant coffee? I find it very strange that these corporate unions are also happening in companies normally thought of as leftish, starbucks, amazon, tesla, hipster type techie companies. Striking works because the competition is using union labor and you're not ,so you have to deal with strikes while they dont. intercorporate unions dont make any sense, the only person it could possibly benefit would be someone who plans to work an entry level position at starbucks for the rest of their lives, I couldn't imagine a greater nightmare

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

We have to remember that any sort of class consciousness has been systemically dismantled in US since WW2 times. People are rediscovering methods for organization, and it's going to take time for them to learn how to do it effectively and to develop broader consciousness regarding capitalism. I see this as a positive development because if unionizing becomes normalized that's a first step towards people learning about things like collective bargaining and collective political action.

The job for the politically advanced vanguard is to engage with other workers, to guide them, and to teach them in order to develop the kind of class consciousness we need. It's not going to happen on its own.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

I smell a carefully plotted PR stunt. People pay billions for the amount of free advertisements and name placements Starbucks gets from this, "there's no such thing as bad publicity". Screaming someone's brand name and making their CEO a household name, doesn't have the worst effect on their stock price. Reading this article I'm not being asked to vote for anything, or donate anywhere, all I've learned is that Starbucks gives away free red holiday cups or something, every year. I just want a free cup now that's all.

[–] Slatlun@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think you might be conflating union actions with reporting on union actions. The union is representing its members, but the reporting starts by focusing on the free cup. Vice definitely isn't a worker forward publication. The union is asking for support they would like right at the top of their home page: https://sbworkersunited.org/

Also, unions don't end at corporate boundaries. Read the FAQ on the above link to see how the Starbucks union fits into the local union landscape.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I see, so it's like vaguely connected to the SEIU?... but so many red flags right away, like this:

We are pro-Starbucks

why?

We want Starbucks to be the best it can be.

why?

Many of us have dedicated years of our lives to this company

that's so sad

, and those of us with less seniority want this to be a place we can make a sustainable career.

wouldn't you just prefer seniority?

Starbucks it is the leader in the coffee industry.

who talks like this?

It should also be the leader in collaborating with its partners to raise standards of living and working in the industry.

I'd much rather prefer it go bankrupt

[–] Slatlun@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Are you saying the entire unionization effort is a set up for publicity?

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

it makes sense doesn't it? a completely inept union that can be gotten rid of at anytime, that anyone can either be promoted from or fired from? Starbucks' first union effort was in 1985 almost 40 years were later we've got one whole store. Look at the spook in charge of this new one too. Jaz Brisack, a rhodes scholar and oxford grad who goes to work for minimum wage at starbucks? All these articles saying "starbucks" millions of times over and over, and what happens? maybe they get a small cost of living raise? if that?

[–] Slatlun@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

one whole store

? There are about 250 stores that have approved unionization across a large area impacting 6500 employees. It did start with one store though.

it makes sense doesn't it

No. I believe that Starbucks is trying to make the most of the situation, but they would dissolve the union or would've blocked it in the first place if they could.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago

back in 1985 not only did the CEO openly support the union, but tried claim the original unionization efforts were his idea in the first place, then once the story left the headlines about how everyone at one starbucks has healthcare now, they gutted the union and it dissolved. Why do I feel that will happen again and again throughout starbucks lifetime?

[–] CountryBreakfast@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago

Not exactly how I'd frame it but that is something vice news would do frankly. Starbucks doesn't want a union but they can make the most of it.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Starbucks is fighting this tooth and nail, and they've shut down stores that managed to unionize. I highly doubt companies are encouraging unionization.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

franchises open and close stores on a whim all the time, they also fire people for no reason all the time, 99% of employees don't last a year at any of these corporate mega chains. I don't see them fighting tooth and nail I see them continuing on with business as usual, while posting record profits

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I guess we see things differently here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm far more interested in the ongoing railroad strikes in the US, hardly ever hear a word about them, if I didn't go out of my way to google it every now and then I wouldn't even know it's going on. Granted it's in the US so its not a real union, or a real strike those are highly illegal, and considered an act of treason, but its interesting to watch. Especially considering how much the transportation industry is being automated, driverless trucks, hyperloops, at home deliveries skyrocketing etc

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sure, railroad strikes have much more potential, but it all adds up in my opinion. As I said earlier, I think the key part is that workers are recognizing the need to organize and act collectively. Every such effort should be encouraged, and when these efforts are misguided then efforts should be made to help steer people in the right direction.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I call it cheerleaderism, your intentions are all that matter, you're on our team so we just say "rah rah sis boom bah goooo ummm.... checks notes the starbucks corporate union rah!"

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

As I said, people need to be educated. This is literally why the concept of the vanguard party exists.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

what is to be learned from "rah rah sis boom bah"?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I've explained my point above several times already, I don't see the point of repeating myself.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

this is what I mean by cheerleaderism, either for or against, either we say, yay starbucks union or boo starbucks union, and no critical analysis is ever made, nothing is learned. its as if the outcome is based on positivity, and that if we can shield the fragile starbucks babies from any and all criticism they'll grow up to be big and strong.

"just support them" as if me having positive or negative thoughts about them in my head, by myself in my house will effect anyone's life. I think it comes from the internet, so its not surprising to see these strange unions-by-tweet where it's just random people who work for the same megacorp just saying "let's a do a union like in the movies woohoo" and then kind of do some union like stuff at maybe 5 stores and then nothing happens and the union dissolves a few years later. It's like a new trendy hashtag. I imagine any real union activist or leader who approaches them, would be greeted with boos immediately as he would not be all totes mcgoats super supportive right off the bat, and say every little thing they did was awesome and special and wonderful and how great they all are for breathing air and drinking water

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I've repeatedly explained that I think it's important to educate workers who are organizing ineffectively, and you just keep ignoring that. It's pretty clear we're talking past each other here. Have a good day.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

hey sorry don't it take it so personally, I know you post lots of leftist news stories on here, and we all appreciate it. I'm not asking you stop posting about starbucks, I'm more interested hearing everyone else's thoughts on the subject, not asking you to personally defend them or even stop posting about them. You should be able to criticize them, or criticize what I'm writing about them, if you can't do either, you could always ask me questions, or you could always just assume I'm a complete idiot and not worth your time and ignore me

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago

I'm not taking it personally, I just disagree with your assessment and I don't think we're getting anywhere. I agree with being able to criticize misguided efforts at organizing, I'm just saying that I see the drive to do so as a positive, and the way to really improve things is by educating people. If we simply dismiss the effort then it's just going to be wasted. If the people organizing get help to steer them in the right direction then there's a chance it'll grow into something better.

[–] CountryBreakfast@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If a Vanguard existed it could work towards bringing together these union workers and coffee farmers. The problem is that it does not seem like something a Starbucks union would even find interesting or empowering.

This is part of the problem. Some workers rely on the exploitation of other workers. How can this be reconciled? This is why I yawn when the news about Starbucks unions gets around. No one has the answers. I've even asked Starbucks workers about this specifically. They just want a better wage. They aren't looking to leverage the political power of their labor to promote solidarity much less consequencial action.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago

minimum wage, universal healthcare, and affordable housing would be way better for these people than any dumb corporate union

[–] Deer_Tito@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Not to mention luxury coffee shops being the most useless thing on planet earth. honestly how many people can tell the difference in a blind taste test between starbucks and freeze dried instant coffee?

[Disclaimer: I'm a coffee snob]

Most people who go to Starbucks would probably not be able to tell if they're drinking specialty coffee or grocery store coffee, my impression is that they don't go there to get great coffee, but out of convenience. Chains like Starbucks are the fast food equivalent in the coffee world. I wouldn't go to a Starbucks myself, if I'm on a long trip I love stopping by a good coffee shop where they serve specialty coffee. "Luxury coffee shops" (local coffee shops) have a place in our society, in my opinion international coffee shop chains do not.

[–] thetablesareorange@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'm a total coffee addict too I drink a pot a day, I consider starbucks more like a teenage ice cream shop though, their drip coffee is good, but I usually go to dunkin for their xtra large cups, but starbucks does light roast coffee which you can't find anywhere and it's like 30 cents more a cup so i'll go there sometimes for that. If i do blow money on something like a latte I'll go to starbucks. but i dont think ive been there in maybe 3 years? I used to get the beans back when I ground my own. Now i just stick to folgers and maxwell house, don't even bother putting sugar in it anymore . Id never get beans or get a latte at mcdonalds, even though I go there just for their $1 any size coffee all the time.

However Starbucks also sells ice cream drinks that the teenagers love because they have caffeine and are more "adult" than a giant milkshake. So starbucks became a trendy place for suburban white teens to hangout, mostly just because it was one of only three stores in the whole town, but also because it was a legal drug for teens, so it became a cool place for teenage white girls to eat ice cream and hangout. Coffeeshops in europe have a whole long storied traditios of intellectuals, poets, and political history etc but not in America it's just a burger joint that focuses on coffee, maybe there is some genuine cultural crossover there, but its mostly about selling ice cream to suburban teenage white girls

[–] CountryBreakfast@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago

Not to mention... Unions using corporate iconography is gross

[–] DoroWat_Connoisseur@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

Allot of union dues are based on how many years you work. They'd have to have something like a flat rate while providing worthwhile services to employees such as legal and employment expertise.