How many folks do we have to sniper before we get to someone who isn't a fascist?
this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
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If trump died before the Electoral Votes are cast, they wouldn't be bound to vote for him and can vote for anyone, but its almost certainly going to be vance. Then either vance or RNC picks someone else to be the new VP to tells the electors to now instead of voting: [Pres: trump VP: vance] its now [Pres: vance VP: whoever they find to take this role]
If both trump and vance died before the electoral votes are cast, then RNC find 2 new people to tell their electors to vote for.
(Remember Electors are selected by their parties and are usually party loyalists that aren't gonna vote for the opposing party. Think of people like Former President Obama being an elector in his state for the democratic ticket, he aint voting trump ever, and same thing with a loyal maga supporter, they aint ever switching to vote Democrat.)
If trump died after the electoral votes are cast, vance takes the oath and become 47th president, VP is empty. vance can appoint someone to be VP with simple majority of both houses.
If both trump and vance died after the electoral votes are cast, the speaker of the house, mike johnson, swears in as Acting President (after being required to resign as speaker of the house) for the rest of the term or until someone else above them in the line of sucession becomes available to be acting president. (We dont know what happens if acting president mike johnson nominates a VP since the new VP would be above him in the line of sucession)
Only VP takes the title of "President", everyone else in the line of sucession is not designated by the constitution but is only statutory.
This is a wonderful explainer, thank you!
Yes. The ticket got elected, not just orange turdsicle. Succession applies here.
According to the National Archives, it seems like succession might not necessarily apply and would likely be argued over by lawyers should he die before the Electoral College meets. I'll paste their text below, and I pasted the link in a separate answer
What happens if a candidate dies or becomes incapacitated?
There is no Federally-required process to follow if a candidate who is projected to receive electoral votes dies or becomes incapacitated between the general election and the meeting of electors. However, individual States may have their own requirements that govern how electors must vote at the meeting of the electors. In 1872, when Horace Greeley passed away between Election Day and the meeting of electors, the electors who were slated to vote for Greeley voted for various candidates, including Greeley. The votes cast for Greeley were not counted due to a House resolution passed regarding the matter. See the full Electoral College vote counts for President and Vice President in the 1872 election.
We don’t know what would happen if a candidate who, dies after or becomes incapacitated between the meeting of electors and the counting of electoral votes in Congress.
The Constitution is silent on whether this candidate meets the definition of “President elect” or “Vice President elect.” If the candidate with a majority of the electoral votes is considered “President elect” before the counting of electoral votes in Congress, §3 of the 20th Amendment applies. That section states that the Vice President elect will become President if the President-elect dies or becomes incapacitated.
If a winning Presidential candidate dies or becomes incapacitated between the counting of electoral votes in the Congress and the inauguration, the Vice President-elect becomes President, according to §3 of the 20th Amendment.
I'm not sure how there's much of any argument for it. It's pretty clear that a person only officially becomes vice/president-elect after being voted for in the EC.
Though what happens it the EC elects a dead man? Many states REQUIRE their electors to vote as told. Probably would see more state level law crises at that point. Resolutions to make the electors vote for the VP candidate if the presidential one dies.
So they would vote for Vance in that case, which is technically successional.
Probably, but they aren't required to
Technically it would be suck-sectional.
Suck Sectional is the name of the couch that Vance wishes could be Second Lady
Not necessarily. If it's after the electoral votes are cast, then yes, definitely.
But the electors are bound by different rules, set by their respective states, on how they would vote if Trump died before then.
I think in the constitutional sense, "President-elect" and "Vice President-elect" refers to the candidates after the electoral college votes and before they take office. The constitution doesn't take into account popular votes, as presidential electors aren't even chosen by popular vote in early days.
i remember looking that stuff up before... iirc, vance would not enter the line of succession until the congressional count of electoral votes in early january.
Which again, is inevitable. Good luck getting the Supreme Court to rule against the Republicans if this happened. The ticket was on the ballot, not the individual candidate for President.
Others have explained that it depends on when, but I want to add this: when a VP becomes pres. through succession, the speaker does not become VP automatically. The new pres. picks whoever they want. Ford chose the governor of NY, for example.
Don't know, but I like your thinking.
If trump dies, vance is gonna baselessly claim democrats assassinated him and immediately invoke the insurrection act and martial law, ordering the military to hunt down democrats.
Remember his ohio "haitian are eating our cats" rhetoric? Imagine when he has a position of power.
It would be really interesting watching Vance try to carry on Trumpism without Trump. He’s already strained to convert himself into an angry, insane Trumpian after starting out in quite a different place. Could he continue dancing if the music stopped?
The accepted wisdom is yes. The people voted for the VP already and that is honored. Worst case scenario is the election ends up in Congress where Vance would win anyways.
There is never a path for the speaker of the house to become vice president. Either the President and Vice President are dead and he's president, or he's still just the speaker.
As others have pointed out, before or after the electoral count is completed, makes a minor difference. It would be interesting to watch it play out.
Correction: Speaker does not become President, but Acting President. Only VP actually ever takes the title of "President" in succession scenarios.
And there's disagreement over that.
Article II, Section 1, Clause 6:
In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
Anyone in the line of succession below VP is designated by law, which according to the constitution, only acts as president, not become president.
Edit: But I mean, supreme court could just say that they become president just to make their reign seem more legitimate. We don't really know anymore. Law is just what the system believes to be law.
Unless of course the VP dies and the President nominated the speaker as the VP and was confirmed
Johnson doesn't just move up into a new job. They'd have to pick a new vice president. They could pick Johnson I suppose, I don't know why he would want to be the vice president when he is Speaker of the House though. Now the question is how they pick a new vice president, because I don't believe there's any precedent to guide that. Would they have to nominate one in Congress and have them vote on him? That's what they would do if the vice president already been sworn in, but since he wouldn't have been at that point I don't know there's any real way of knowing. You can make an argument that the RNC would be able to just name one, but again there's no precedent.
I figured it's Johnson because it's always Johnson... Andrew Johnson after Lincoln and Lindon B. after JFK
I wouldn't hold my breath. Dudes been scarfing down cheeseburgers most of his life, and hasn't died yet.
Two assassination plots though, and that was before his presidency was assured. I’m not hoping, I’m not calling for it. But the impulse definitely seems to be out there to pop a cap in this man.
Strangely, it sort of depends on when. If he dies before the EC meets, it's up for lawyers to argue, from my reading of the text.
Vance would be sworn in as president and then pick a VP to be nominated by Congress. The Speaker wouldn't move up to VP, they would find a new number 2.
Mike would be sworn in, if Trump takes Vance out while he has his heart attack.
That's only after the electoral college votes.
It has never happened before, so we don't really know. What I think would happen is that Vance would just get immediately sworn in as the President on Jan 20 if God exercises His Ultimate Veto on Trump's second term.
But the Presidential Succession Act only covers vacancies for the Presidency. Once the office of the President is filled again, nothing else happens. It's not like everyone else "moves up" a slot. Mike Johnson would probably see the VP position as a demotion honestly.
The Office of the VP would remain vacant until President Vance nominates a candidate, and then it must be approved by both houses of Congress in order for the position to be filled.
And it isn't a hard rule the President has to nominate a VP, although that makes some things more difficult.
Yes, the VP position can remain vacant indefinitely, or at least until the end of a term when another VP can be elected through the normal process. The only thing that is lost is the tiebreaking vote. Well, and the fact that if the President has a colonoscopy and is put under sedation nobody is available to be acting President. I don't think the House Speaker is able to take that job for just a few hours like the Vice President can.
Kamala Harris was actually Acting President for 85 minutes in 2021, ~~and probably at least once after that.~~
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/19/politics/kamala-harris-presidential-power/index.html
(nope, she did it just that once. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_President_of_the_United_States )
Probably. Republicans would fight tooth and nail to stay in power. And with the House and Senate, plus Supreme Court on thier side it wouldn't even be a contest.
Is that better? That fuckfacescara is more competent than the Twinkie